Maus
 

Have never actually read the Holocaust related graphic novel Maus, but it does seem odd that a Tennessee school district would ban it (for spurious reasons). I wonder if it's a generational thing, whereby those educators who came of age in this millenium simply do not appreciate the scale of the Holocaust. I learned about it in the late 70s (about 30 years after the fact) and perhaps it was that much more part of the zeitgeist back then. Also have been reading in the UK press that some British students are sympathetic to the Germans of the day, due to the movie Boy in the Striped Pajamas.

Re: Maus
 

My first thought when I read the story this morning - hang on, this book came out nearly thirty years ago. NOW you’ve decided to ban it? And I think you’re right, there’s a generational aspect in the way you describe. But further, these board members & administrators are probably so pig-ignorant, cut off from the wider world, and so full of themselves that they probably simply don’t know how highly regarded the book is around the world, and what a good reputation Spiegelman has in the field.

Re: Maus
 

One of the speakers/voters said that they dont object to the Holocaust being taught, (just 8 swear words - I wonder what they are, I don't remember; read it decades ago; and a picture of a naked mouse) .
Another objected to people being hung, and other unsavory things. I am not sure what the plan can be to teach the Holocaust and not include murder.
Edit - Found the quote from the meeting minutes:
"It shows people hanging, it shows them killing kids, why does the educational system promote this kind of stuff, it is not wise or healthy."

Re: Maus
 

Can you say more about that. From what you read, were people sympathetic to the killings, or sympathetic to the ignorance/turning a blind eye, or was it something else?

Re: Maus
 

Here's the link on the Boy in the Striped Pajamas article. Hadn't seen the film, but now that they say there's some misinterpreted, I think I am inclined to do so.

​​​​https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...aust-fallacies

Re: Maus
 

I must admit that until yesterday, I had not heard of The Boy in the Striped Pyjamas, the novel or the film. It sounds to me like it’s not unique, lots of novels & films have the “feel good” factor that can humanize ordinary Germans. Nothing wrong with that! It seems that the problem here is that it’s been introduced into the curriculum, and for many schoolchildren, apparently, it’s all they know about the Holocaust .. obviously not the novelist or filmmaker’s fault.

Anyone remember the film Europa Europa? It’s about a Jewish boy who was “adopted” in turn by German soldiers, and Russian soldiers. They were all shown to be decent human beings, just doing what they had to do. It’s well worth watching, really good film.

Re: Maus
 

I find this to be a good article about the Maus banning. It’s from Kveller.

https://www.kveller.com/a-tennessee-...1-39571-321703

Re: Maus
 

An excellent post, again!

Re: Maus
 

The article makes a good point about kids having seen far more sex and violence on their phones or the internet. If that part of Tennessee has few jews it could be that the persons involved just have little empathy with the Holocaust, and the see this cartoon account of it as insubstantial (but the Pulitzer ought to give them pause!). Hopefully after the hubbub they will reverse their decision.

I saw Speiglman on CNN last night, and was amused that on the broadcasted video call not only was he vaping to the camera, but throwing a few snacks into his mouth.

Re: Maus
 

I went to see Europa Europa in the cinema, and do you know, at the time they were also playing a film called Europa. By some mistake we ended up sitting through Europa and it wasn't until well past the half way point we realised we were in the wrong film. It annoys me to this day. :rofl: I think I'll have to watch it sometime for the sake of completion.

Re: Maus
 

That is funny! I looked up that other film, and it sounds quite good in its own right … !

Re: Maus
 

It was ok, but not quite what I was expecting. For the first twenty minutes I thought it was a trailer for another film, so didn't pay attention, and then I was waiting for it to segue into the Europa Europa story.

Re: Maus
 

Ta, for the link.
Although humanizing isn't just not wrong, its required, if there is to be any point in telling tales of the Holocaust, if it is to be taught at all, with reason, it has to mould people from monsters. I am seeing for myself, within my extended family, how sympathy is given to the nascent monster, because, well, they are polite to their grandmother, and that leads to the denial of outcomes down the road, when Nazism is embraced. I think many others can see it in society too. We will only learn from the Holocaust, when we accept that those monsters, are potentially us, our friends, our neighbors.(Much easier lessons to take from the Holocaust when you are not Jewish like me)
I have seen the Boy with Stripped Pajamas, but it didn't leave any lasting mark on me, I have a few memories of it, but those memories are very incomplete. I do remember the family scenes of the Commandant who is brought in, the father of the boy who befriends the boy in pajamas. That to me was a strength of the film, showing life of the monster as a father, and husband, someone who can love.. But I had not considered, that I can see that humanity (as a part of the monster), because I already knew the monster. I had the scaffolding. This situation shows the complexity of communicating the Holocaust. There is no easy, quick, method. We need to see both the person and the monster. The Boy in Stripped Pajamas, can still have a place, but it does seem to need more context. The article linked by Shard states that the film is more likely to be chosen by English teachers than by History teachers. I wonder what those History teachers are doing while the English teachers are reading Pajamas? I know in my school, while the Holocaust is covered in history class, Night by Wiesel is read in English class. I am curious if something similar happens when Pajamas is read, does it have other scaffolding, or is it a one stop shop for all Holocaust needs?

Re: Maus
 

this tweet seems appropriate
"My 6th grade teacher assigned “Night” by Elie Wiesel. Some parents complained about “appropriateness.” Mrs. Gussky stared down the whole PTA. “The author was 12 when these things happened to him. Such things happen to 12-year-olds every day.”"

Re: Maus
 

Given that the pajama book/film, has a character voluntarily go in to the camp, this short film from the BBC re-promoted today, about a man going in to Auschwitz, as a spy to learn, report, and organize, seems apropos.

https://www.bbc.com/reel/video/p0b71...d-in-auschwitz

Re: Maus
 

Found on Reddit...

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/british...978102460d.jpg

Re: Maus
 

Fascinating clip, thanks. What horrific times and what bravery. Not sure why he was shot by the communists after the war though ?

Re: Maus
 

Exactly!

Re: Maus
 

This is a crucial point. Apart from the occasional psychopath who was just born that way (and even psychopaths are often created by their early lives), the Holocaust would not have happened without the explicit actions of many, and implicit consent of many, ordinary people. After all, the Holocaust didn't just pop up one day out thin air. All the history, over years, of putting the nazis into power, the gradual increase of intensity in the campaign against the Jewish people, and the even longer history of people with respect to anti-semitism (either simply accepting it and carrying on with their lives without speaking up or doing anything about it, or eagerly joining in with the more acute expressions of violence), led us to that moment. We have to see that while there may have been a psychopath in charge, in the case of Nazi Germany, that psychopath would have been powerless had it not been for the semi-conscious collaboration of vast numbers of "normal people". If you look at Hitler, or Mengele, or Eichmann, you can think that once they were just babies and little boys, loved by their mums and dads, playing the games that little children play. Human. Later, monsters. And a whole lot of normal people just went along with it.

I have in front of me always the example of a "normal German", friend of my family, who got out of Germany right at the beginning of the war. After a short internment, his father went into SOE and he went into the first Commandos. He used to talk about other Germans who didn't do that, saying that they were just ordinary people who sleepwalked into a situation on the back on inherited cultural prejudices and practices, who didn't wake up in time and then found themselves doing these things as though they, too, were normal. He said that small things can turn into very, very big things if not stamped on right away.

Re: Maus
 

There is a recent film "Final Account" that explores the views of Germans who participated in the Holocaust. The last remaining Germans. I haven't seen it yet, but hope to soon. No question that there was plenty of complicity.

Re: Maus
 

He continued the struggle, continued fighting, against Stalinism, as he had against Nazism.
It was for these actions after the war that he was sentenced.

Re: Maus
 

I see, a rebel till the end.

Re: Maus
 

It's surprising (and troubling) to see that anti-vax protestors have co-opted the yellow star in their campaign. It seems to support the idea that there is a generational shift in attitude/perception of the Holcaust. It must seem like an abstract event to younger people. I recall when I was young WW1 seemed far more abstract than WW2, but with the "benefit" of age they now appear on equal footing.

Re: Maus
 

The irony of banning a book about the people who banned books.

This is why certain groups of people are against national standards for curriculum is schools. They lose the local power to ban or promote certain ideals, and the kids are worse off for it. Over the last few years they have also been trying to ban mention of slavery under the guise of it being racist. It's no coincidence that these people are trying to pretend that bad things didn't happen in the past, they would do them in the present if they could get away with it.

Re: Maus
 

Which school boards are trying to ban the mention of slavery ?

Re: Maus
 

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/british...ae658385c.jpeg

Re: Maus
 

Cancel culture is real but it’s not the ‘woke mob’ you should worry about
Books deemed anti-church or containing LGBTQ issues are being banned across the US at a terrifying rate by the conservative right

Re: Maus
 

Have now watched the film "Final Account" mentioned up thread. Very interesting to hear the accounts of former SS and civilians that were involved in the concentration camps. For most there seemed to be a process of indoctrination and social incentives from late childhood, and then once Hitler gained power a genuine fear of persecution if they were to take a moral stand. Not really news, but meaningful to hear it from the Germans of the day and to understand the moral dilemma. Only a couple of former Nazis refused to admit their guilt in the tragedy. I had expected a grim documentary with all the usual horrific imagery, but it was present-day interviews in the homes of perpetrators, which made for a very human account of what happened. On BBC iPlayer.
​​​​​​

Re: Maus
 

Here's the trick - you can't just come out and say it. Just like how Maus was removed under the pretext of language and nudity, you do the same with slavery. It used to be that books were labelled as "unfair to the south" if they said anything worse than slavery being the kind employment of black folks who really appreciated it, and those books were banned from schools and libraries. These days they ban "critical race theory" and then they can label everything involving racism (including US slavery) as that even if it isn't close. Some states even go as far as making a bounty and fining teachers. Here's a snazzy graphic of states, although the reality isn't as bad as it looks since a lot of the current bills won't succeed.
https://worldpopulationreview.com/st...al-race-theory

Re: Maus
 

In Texas there were plans for a law to prohibit the museum for the Alamo from mentioning anything beyond the battle. So that the issue of slavery and Texas at the time of it's rebellion against Mexico and the slave owners who fought, would not be mentioned. I didn't follow the story, so I don't know if the bill became law.

Re: Maus
 

When was that "used to be" period ? It must have been several decades back at least. Are there really American schools this century that don't acknowledge slavery existed ?

Re: Maus
 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/educa...avery-schools/

Note the date in the link, 2019

Re: Maus
 

Seems to confirm that slavery is in fact taught in US schools. In any case, there won't be an American child alive that does not know about slavery.

Re: Maus
 

If you consider the examples in the quote above as 'teaching about slavery', you may in fact be part of the problem.

Referring to slaves as workers, as though it was voluntary.
'Positive aspects of slavery'?
Those mock slave auctions are unlikely to be teaching children the full extent how how slaves were treated at the time.

'Teaching'? More like indoctrinating kids into believing slavery wasn't that bad, and that there were positive benefits.

And like the banning of CRT, anything that challenges the narrative that blacks were severely disadvantaged throughout history is pushed aside and the truth literally white-washed.

Re: Maus
 

​​​​​​I very much doubt that the examples cited constituted the entire lesson on slavery. Anian's original statement was that "slavery isn't mentioned," which turns out to be false.

Re: Maus
 

Which post was that, because I only found



In response your question below. So it was about book banning, not saying that slavery wasn't being taught.

Re: Maus
 

This, while pedantically correct, seems to be going out of the way to miss the point, and praise itself in the glorious slaying of mere rhetorical hyperbole..

Re: Maus
 

They were also described as "immigrants" in one of those infamous Texas "history" books.

Re: Maus
 

Part of the culture war in America, is in schools, it is a continuation of the Lost Cause narrative. Minimize slavery, claim it to be benign, claim that it benefited the enslaved. It was faux slavery, and people are just being mean and anti-South in even mentioning it.

Re: Maus
 

Is this a good place to mention Whoopi Goldberg?
I see her comment as very American-centric. where the power dynamic of inequality is very focused on that of colour. Sometimes when talking to Americans, one could start to believe that only the USA had slavery, that it was more numerous and worse in the USA than anywhere else. I am sure we all have our own cultural blinkers. But so prevalent is the USA's view on this, that I suspect that few in Britain have any idea of the brutality and the far bigger numbers of British controlled slave economies in the Caribbean. The section of America that is open to its past, has given the likes of Britain a get out of gaol card.