A language question
 

A friend of mine who teaches English in Asia asked me about a quirk of American speech. Since he's been asked to teach American English rather than English English, he wants to know which is best.

He has heard Americans, on TV and in real life, saying "I could care less" - instead of "I couldn't care less". Now I've only lived here in the States a little while, but I have never heard anyone say that. However, it's a big country. So my question to you is, do you hear American's saying "could" instead of "couldn't" in this phrase, indeed, do you say it yourself, and if so, which version is more common where you live?

Re: A language question
 

Of course they do!

<<<sigh>>>

Still doesn't make it right though :rolleyes:

Re: A language question
 

Americans: always in my experience "could care less"
but your friend needs to teach that this is just wrong!

Re: A language question
 

I hear it all the time. It makes me want to punch people.

"What do you think of my new <<insert insignificant purchase here>>?"

"I could care less."

"Oh, so you do quite like it then?"

"What?"

"Don't you mean 'pardon'?"

"Whaaaaa . . . ?"

*thump* - as my head falls off and rolls away in protest.

Re: A language question
 

I have heard it in speech and on TV, so I guess "could care less" is right in American usage even if it doesn't make sense.

Re: A language question
 

It's not correct even in America, it starts a whole host of complaints and arguments on another (US) site I go to, it's a pet peeve of many Americans even, if you could care less you would. :sneaky:
There are a lot of them, someone hears the saying wrong, takes it wrong, uses it in the wrong way and then says they are the right one :banghead:

Re: A language question
 

This is why I prefer to stick to 'I couldn't give a shit.' No confusion there :)

Re: A language question
 

No. It is incorrect. Americans who know how to speak/read/write recognize it as wrong and will make fun of them behind their back. Teach it the correct way, the way that makes logical sense, and be done with it.

Re: A language question
 

Or the more polite: "I'm sorry, you appear to be confusing me with someone who gives a f**k" ...

Re: A language question
 

I save that one for when I want to be extra specially nice!

Re: A language question
 

This analysis on World Wide Words is interesting.

The writer suggests that it may be a typical American "sarcastic inversion of apparent sense" with its possible roots in Yiddish phrases etc.;

"There’s a close link between the stress pattern of I could care less and the kind that appears in certain sarcastic or self-deprecatory phrases that are associated with the Yiddish heritage and (especially) New York Jewish speech. Perhaps the best known is I should be so lucky!, in which the real sense is often “I have no hope of being so lucky”, a closely similar stress pattern with the same sarcastic inversion of meaning. There’s no evidence to suggest that I could care less came directly from Yiddish, but the similarity is suggestive. There are other American expressions that have a similar sarcastic inversion of apparent sense, such as Tell me about it!, which usually means “Don’t tell me about it, because I know all about it already”. These may come from similar sources."

Re: A language question
 

I figured it was probably just the first half of a phrase like:
"I could care less, but I don't"

Re: A language question
 

That's similar to the one that irks the snot out of me: when speaking of an unusually cold person (usually a woman), it's said, "butter would melt in her mouth". Now, I know what they really mean is that she's so icy in her demeanor that even butter wouldn't melt in her mouth, but........ :D

Re: A language question
 

We use that phrase for someone who is 'too good to be true'.

Re: A language question
 

My dear old Granny had that beaten with her classic, which I shall re-state for you now (To a person who made an extraordinary claim or the like):

"If you'd a square arsehole you'd shit bricks"

Re: A language question
 

I've always heard it as "I could care less". I think it developed from a longer phrase, for example "As if I could care less" or something like that. A google search for ["i could care less" etymology] came up with lots and lots of articles and discussions, but many of them are pretty heavy reading. Here's a good one, though, which gives some other examples of similar nonsensical English phrases.

http://www.wisegeek.com/what-does-i-...-less-mean.htm

Re: A language question
 

That's how I've always known it to be used as well.

Re: A language question
 

I'm debating posting entirely in Hick from now on.

Re: A language question
 

Go for it :thumbsup: See if we can can read it.
Trying to read a post from someone who uses text speak is bad enough it gives me a head ache

Re: A language question
 

I thought you already were. :confused:








You know I love you. :wub:

Re: A language question
 

:sneaky:

I've diluted my accent on BE so the English can understand me. I'm talking about going full on Craigslist Redneck.:blink:

















:wub:

Re: A language question
 

Are you gonna say thing like cattywampus and wallered out?

Re: A language question
 

I had to look those up :lol:

If this continues then I'm going to have to start speaking Norn Irn, and then you'll all be up to your oxters in muck and gleur.

Re: A language question
 

I also like "beat the tar out of you" :thumbup:

Re: A language question
 

Yes - though it is often pronounced as 'bait the tore oot a yee' - in some parts. Not by me though - I was always very well spoken don't you know . . .

Re: A language question
 

Just this morning I heard a similar thing that always drives me nuts on the radio. The guy said, "Well, the proof will be in the pudding," causing me to yell back, "No, the proof of the pudding is IN THE EATING!" (Sorry, had to shout.) It's as if they think the proof is something hidden in the pudding -- like an old sixpence in the Christmas pud.

Re: A language question
 

Yeah, a lot of them get shortened over time. I like "Happy as a clam" which used to be "happy as a clam at high tide"...which of course is when clams cannot be dug up by clam diggers.

Re: A language question
 

It's a bit like 'money is the root of all evil" which should be "the love of money is the root of all evil"

Re: A language question
 

'I could care less' does my nut in. I have never posted on this site before but this is the subject that has drawn me out of my lurking. I take it you've all seen this 100 times already:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=om7O0MFkmpw

Re: A language question
 

Hehe, thanks everyone, that's quite enlightening. I'l send my friend the link to this thread. :)

Re: A language question
 

Cattywampus? Does anybody say that?:lol:

I'm pretty sure wallered out is a legitimate technical term.


I'm thinking more like this:

http://huntington.craigslist.org/cto/2490361930.html

Re: A language question
 

My uncle, who had a farm southeast of the Chicago area, used to say cattywampus, which meant it was "skewjawed".:D The only time I've heard "wallered" is when it was spoken of someone who was wallowing in self pity or in a mud hole. So what does wallered mean, then? :confused:

Re: A language question
 

So cattywampus means cock-eyed (which is infinitely funnier)?

Re: A language question
 

A medical term I think :lol:

Re: A language question
 

Thank you for this one. My initial reaction when reading the beginning of this thread was "Oh, come on! Ever hear of sarcasm?"

:D

[As an aside, in the linguistic melting pot we have here in LA, I have noticed frequent importation of foreign syntax into spoken English. Rather than get upset, I find it interesting.] [In an office I worked in a long time ago, I was asked for an English equivalent for a Korean phrase which literally was "kill two birds with one stone."]

Re: A language question
 

FWIW -- one of my pet peeves in US immigration law is the phrase "legacy INS." I've given up on this usage to describe the "former INS."

The Immigration & Naturalization Service had been the agency generally responsible for administration of the US Immigration & Nationality Act. It had been part of the the Department of Justice.

In 2003, the Department of Homeland Security came into being. Many previously existing government agencies were transferred into the newly created department, e.g. the Coast Guard, Secret Service, etc.

The INS was abolished and its functions were divided in three. The enforcement functions went into the newly created Immigration & Customs Enforcement and the adjudications functions into the newly created Citizenship & Immigration Services. The immigration border inspection functions were combined with the US Customs Service [which had been in Treasury] to form the new Customs & Border Protection. In apparent effort to promote confusion, the Homeland Security law actually created three "Bureaus" so the three new agencies were BICE, BCIS and BCBP -- the term "Bureau" was then dropped. Go figure.

I believe the term "Legacy INS" is a corruption of the term "legacy system." To my mind, the "Legcy INS" consists of the three currently existing agencies of ICE, CIS and CBP. Personally, I use the term "Former INS."

Re: A language question
 

Wallered out is what a hole gets when it gets beaten out of round from the inside, usually by a bolt or shaft of some type that has come loose. A typical instance would be if all the lug nuts came loose on your car's wheel. Since the nuts were loose the wheel could jiggle around on the wheel studs and the force of it rotating bangs the holes in the wheel out of shape. Those holes are now wallered out.

http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t...r/100_3237.jpg

Re: A language question
 

Yes, very possibly having to do with childbirth. Have to ask the BE girl parts Dr.

Re: A language question
 

Thank you very much - my day's not wasted - I've learned something new! :D
(Hope that doesn't sound sarcastic, 'cause I don't mean it to be.) Have always thought it was a good thing to learn something, no matter what. ('Course, considering my age and gender, there are some things I wish I could un-learn :))

Re: A language question
 

As a matter of fact, yes. :frown:

Oh my.