Re: An example of unexpected medical bills
 

Not it is not. Just read what you posted.

It is 12% up to £43,000, then 2%. Nil for very low earners.

NI contributions do not just pay for the NHS.

Re: An example of unexpected medical bills
 

No. The NHS is funded largely out of general taxation, not NI. it costs around 10% of GDP. I very much doubt you’re paying less in the US: employer funded insurance, for example, effectively is wages forgone. Plus you are paying Medicare tax. And general taxes for Medicaid, CHIP, VA etc. Total cost 18% of GDP.

Re: An example of unexpected medical bills
 

Rubbish, that 12% which isnt 12% for most, is made up by employee and employer, and has nothing to do with the nhs, its just a tax, used for pensions roads etc etc and im sure a penny goes to the nhs.

Re: An example of unexpected medical bills
 

Guess what - everyone rations healthcare... Especially the for profit american insurers. If i was told the nhs wouldnt pay for an operation, at least i would be guaranteed a rational clinically justified response from the local ccg. At least if i had any number of common or exotic diseases, my medications would be paid for, without question. There are exceptions but they are usually about temporary palliative or unproven exotic drugs. A great example is TB, drug resistant forms take 6 months plus to cure, and costs are 50k, but they are all covered.

Yes private medical care in most of europe is extrememy cheap and often better quality than the states, belgium is actually excellent, germany would be, but they forbid a lot of doctors from doing it, france is good, but you have to be careful, not all who offer treatment are up to date [sister lives there, uses a mix of french and uk care.]

Why is europe cheaper than america and as good or better?

Re: An example of unexpected medical bills
 

12% for anyone that earns over £5k a year, so you are correct not everyone. The employer contribution is 13.8%, if you refer to the tables. So that's around 25% tax. Also does that 18% GDP take into account the PFI money?

As to which system is better, it depends on your circumstances. When my kid needed a hernia operation I was glas it could be done almost immediately. My sister on the other hand had to wait 6 months for a hip replacement and was in constant pain for almost a year, taking into the waiting time initially to see the consultant etc.

If I was unemployed, yes the NHS is a nice safety net. Is the NHS abused because it is seen as a "free" service for many, almost certainly.

Re: An example of unexpected medical bills
 

You are still wrong. 12% up to £43,000, then 2%.

As others have said there is no correlation between NI contributions and NHS anyway.

Re: An example of unexpected medical bills
 

"The NHS is funded mainly from general taxation and National Insurance contributions. In 2001, an increase in National Insurance rates intended to boost NHS funding increased the proportion paid for by National Insurance, although general taxation still accounts for around 80 per cent of NHS funding."

https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/project...how-nhs-funded

So really the level of NI is largely moot in this conversation: the vast majority of it goes towards the state pension and other benefits.

You could make the same argument about insurance-funded healthcare as well, especially for those with top notch employer-provided plans. But the bottom line is that there is a huge disparity in costs between the UK and US systems. Well, actually between the US and any other country.

Re: An example of unexpected medical bills
 

Or show me an insurance scheme in the us for 1800 pounds equivalent that provides 10% of what the nhs does, then tell me what an nhs equivalence scheme would cost in the us [because no insurer could even attempt it, if you are the 0.0001% who cost hundreds of thousand a year and who might live 30 years your insurer will run a legal mile after a few ?]

Re: An example of unexpected medical bills
 

Nurse salaries in the UK are much higher than in the UK. In the UK the median RN salary is about £23k, in the US it's about $80k. The median income in the UK is about £24k, I think the US is about $50k. So in the US nurses are overpaid.

You would never hear of a hospital boss leaving because of lack of funding in the US.

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...ospital-london

Re: An example of unexpected medical bills
 

So what you’re saying is that UK execs have more credibility. Actually your example was just the part time chairman of the board one of the London teaching hospitals, he’s not in charge the day-to-day responsibilities are those of the chief exec, he’s on about 300k.

Your third-party information about salaries is a little iffy, here is a link to the Royal College of nurses information, given bonus and area allowances actually you have to add to those numbers about 30 percent to the salaries in London and about 15 elsewhere.

Plus of course they have somewhat superior holiday pension and other arrangements compared with those people in the states. The first year they get 25 paid days off going up to 35 days after year 10. Recently the retirement age was raised from 60 to 65. They also have very superior access to discounted housing.

My sister retired recently at 60 from a salary of 70k as a senior midwife, to a pension of 45k.

https://www.rcn.org.uk/employment-an...scales-2017-18

Re: An example of unexpected medical bills
 

This link shows starting salary of £15k a year. Nurses where I am get annuity pensions paying about 50-60% salary at retirement. Some nurses on the old scheme could get over 100% salary at retirement (PERS). After 10 years get about 7 weeks vacation. Work 3x12 shift pattern and generally have a starting salary of around $70-$80k a year increasing to quite a bit over $100k after some years of service and specialization. My neighbor is on PERS and retired at 55 on a pension of $80k a year plus SS. His salary was $50k a year. I would not say the UK system is superior.

Salary Range: $38.13-$58.01 per hour for 0.9 FTE . This is a PERS job. Private Health care tends to pay a bit more.

https://ais.ohsu.edu/OA_HTML/OA.jsp?...7&p_spid=87070

Re: An example of unexpected medical bills
 

Rehab ? AA meetings are free !

Re: An example of unexpected medical bills
 

The wife got seen next day at her doctors office by her chosen doctor. Never got that in the UK.

My overall stance has remained unchanged that healthcare is far superior in the US if you can afford it.

My personal healthcare premium is cheaper here than it was in the UK. Combination of a good income in both countries and not using healthcare much.

Re: An example of unexpected medical bills
 

I did some consulting work for a factory in Midwest - starting wage was $2100. Insurance for a family of 3 cost the company $1,100, for the individual depending on type of plan , $100 to $350 per month. Over 50% of the base salary is medical cost.

But I think the issue is simpler

The UK delivers health care to ALL for 10% or so of economy, US over 17% but not to all. Regardless of problems with NHS, and there are many, for me any rational and empathetic person would choose for a country the NHS system as compared to that of the USA. Plus private insurance as a back up in UK isn't too expensive in my experience.

Re: An example of unexpected medical bills
 

I guess a lot depends on where in UK you are. In my town if I call in, GP usually calls me back within 2 to 3 hours, we chat and if necessary I get seen the same day or next day. Never had to wait more than a day.

To see specialist of on-urgent does take in my experience a week or two longer than USA. On other hand, just my experience, in UK hey are not rushing you in and out.