Do English Muffins Exist In England
Sep 5th 2016, 4:40 am
#31
Bloody Yank
Joined: Oct 2005
Location: USA! USA!
Posts: 4,186
Re: Do English Muffins Exist In England
The Associated Press (AP) and Modern Language Association (MLA) call for only the apostrophe when the noun ends in S – Kansas’, Arkansas’, boss’, and rowboats’. But Strunk & White and the current Chicago Manual of Style (CMS) prefer the apostrophe S for all uses – Kansas’s, Arkansas’s, boss’s, and rowboats’s. But at least these guides offer a blanket rule. Other guides provide more convoluted advice.
The New York Times and Boston Globe use apostrophe S when the final S is not sibilant – so Arkansas’s but Kansas’, boss’, and rowboats'.
Has it always been this confused? Apparently, a century ago, the Chicago Manual called for apostrophe S with one-syllable words, but longer words received only the apostrophe – boss’s but Arkansas’. Later, CMS swung into the MLA camp, but its most recent edition changed course again.
Other academic guides – APA, AMA, and ACS – largely avoid the issue.
Frustrated by the confusion, the Legal Times turned to the United States Supreme Court in 2006. But as usual, they found the Court deeply divided. In the case of Kansas vs. Marsh, the Legal Times found 7 justices preferred Kansas’ in their opinions, while 2 (Scalia and Souter) used Kansas’s.
The New York Times and Boston Globe use apostrophe S when the final S is not sibilant – so Arkansas’s but Kansas’, boss’, and rowboats'.
Has it always been this confused? Apparently, a century ago, the Chicago Manual called for apostrophe S with one-syllable words, but longer words received only the apostrophe – boss’s but Arkansas’. Later, CMS swung into the MLA camp, but its most recent edition changed course again.
Other academic guides – APA, AMA, and ACS – largely avoid the issue.
Frustrated by the confusion, the Legal Times turned to the United States Supreme Court in 2006. But as usual, they found the Court deeply divided. In the case of Kansas vs. Marsh, the Legal Times found 7 justices preferred Kansas’ in their opinions, while 2 (Scalia and Souter) used Kansas’s.
Personally, I find it difficult to side with Scalia about anything. (Not really surprising that he would have insisted on having something to the right of the apostrophe.)
Sep 5th 2016, 4:51 am
#32
He/him
Joined: Dec 2006
Location: WA
Posts: 18,950
Re: Do English Muffins Exist In England
Mrs Beetons cook book had recipes for both crumpets and muffins (with potatoes).
http://www.recipesource.com/baked-go...crumpets1.html
http://www.recipesource.com/baked-go...crumpets1.html
Sep 5th 2016, 5:48 am
#34
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Posts: 88,105
Re: Do English Muffins Exist In England
I was also taught that possessive on a single noun ending in an "s" was indicated by "s' ". ..... I am not a woman, nor was I born an American, nor taught at a catholic school, nor indeed a school in the US. There seems to have been a creeping tendency to move to "...s's " to indicate possession of a noun ending in "s". 
I am not sure how I would pluralize Thomas if it wasn't to Thomases.
I don't recall ever seeing "can not", but I do see "can't" frequently and I was taught that contractions such as can't, won't, don't, doesn't etc. had no place in narrative writing, except when quoting what someone said.
I am not sure how I would pluralize Thomas if it wasn't to Thomases.
I don't recall ever seeing "can not", but I do see "can't" frequently and I was taught that contractions such as can't, won't, don't, doesn't etc. had no place in narrative writing, except when quoting what someone said.
We were also taught never to use the word got...and not to abbreviate words. On here I have fallen into the habit of abbreviating can't, won't, etc.
. I use can't or cannot but never can not unless the auto correct has stepped in and I haven't noticed. Sorry I should have wrote...have not. 
I cringe every time I hear or see the word 'gotten'. 
Sep 5th 2016, 6:03 am
#35
Joined: Dec 2001
Location: Dixie, ex UK
Posts: 52,588
Re: Do English Muffins Exist In England
.... We were also taught never to use the word got .... I cringe every time I hear or see the word 'gotten'. ....
Sep 5th 2016, 6:07 am
#36
Deep in the woods of CT
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 7,017
Re: Do English Muffins Exist In England
I feel the same way; however when I once mentioned this to my father many years ago, he pointed out that it is in fact old English and that his mother would use it.
PS wouldn't you use Thomases as a straight plural, "We are having dinner with the Thomases," just as you would say the Joneses?
PS wouldn't you use Thomases as a straight plural, "We are having dinner with the Thomases," just as you would say the Joneses?
Sep 5th 2016, 7:36 am
#37
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Re: Do English Muffins Exist In England
Thomas'
Of course I'm not...nor do I wish to be.
I may have a US PP but I am a Brit through and through and always will be.
Both forms "Thomas' and Thomas's" are correct singular possessive nouns. When spoken however this comes across as "Thomases'.
Of course I'm not...nor do I wish to be.
I may have a US PP but I am a Brit through and through and always will be.
I feel the same way; however when I once mentioned this to my father many years ago, he pointed out that it is in fact old English and that his mother would use it.
PS wouldn't you use Thomases as a straight plural, "We are having dinner with the Thomases," just as you would say the Joneses?
PS wouldn't you use Thomases as a straight plural, "We are having dinner with the Thomases," just as you would say the Joneses?
Sep 5th 2016, 9:04 am
#41
Deep in the woods of CT
Joined: Feb 2010
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Re: Do English Muffins Exist In England
Sep 5th 2016, 10:30 am
#43
Account Closed
Joined: Jan 2006
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Re: Do English Muffins Exist In England
Its been too long to say how things were taught in school, amazed how good your memories are......lol
This is what the company says on the topic....
"When a name such as Thomas ends with an "s" and is used as possessive of something such as English muffins, an apostrophe can be added after the "s" or an apostrophe "s" can be used. It has been the desire of our Company to use the apostrophe after the "s." Thomas’ is a registered trademark of Bimbo Bakeries USA."
This is what the company says on the topic....
"When a name such as Thomas ends with an "s" and is used as possessive of something such as English muffins, an apostrophe can be added after the "s" or an apostrophe "s" can be used. It has been the desire of our Company to use the apostrophe after the "s." Thomas’ is a registered trademark of Bimbo Bakeries USA."
Sep 5th 2016, 10:33 am
#45
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 88,105
Re: Do English Muffins Exist In England
That is only adding a 's' to the name. You are adding 'es' to names ending with 's'...whereas I add 's.
