Anyone STILL set on voting for McCain
Jun 8th 2008, 5:38 pm
#76
gurt mint nit?
Joined: Nov 2007
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Posts: 2,776
Re: Anyone STILL set on voting for McCain
Perhaps the "why" of suicide bombing is down to a cultural bent?
The Japanese were able to make that psychological jump with their "divine wind - Kamikaze" attacks. Out of desperation and reinforced with a cultural beleif that it was justified. This is generally an anathema to the Western mind - unless we are driven by religious zeal and pure hatred (IRA, SS Einsatzgruppen, for example).
Those who are able to do that (to us) unthinkable act are driven by what? I'd venture its a similar type of cutural leaning and radical mind set as that of the Japs in WW2 (Manila - babies on bayonets). Plus the value of life surely cannot be weighed the same way as many who find it unthinkable; that one would commit suicide in such a fashion with the intent not to simply end ones life, but to do harm with that sacrifice.
The Krauts in Russia noted that the further they went Eastwards, the more barbaric became the ways of the people they encountered.
If you peel away the ignorance and miconceptions between East and West what remains then? Is there a fundamental racial difference which prevents us from co-existing? Or is it something more manageable; like a cultural and historical gap?
Big question, I know.
But as to yours (
); my own opinion as to the reason suicide bombings is used, is that amongst certain radical circles it is quite simply justifiable. This justification (acceptance) is, in turn, possible because of a universal religious zeal at the ordinary level of society which we in the West haven't had for a hundred years. Hence, as we become more agnostic and twist Christianity into something else - they become stranger and more regressive in our eyes.
Jun 8th 2008, 5:41 pm
#77
Sursum corda
Joined: Sep 2002
Location: Richmond Hill, GA USA
Posts: 38,860
Re: Anyone STILL set on voting for McCain
Chimes in.
Perhaps the "why" of suicide bombing is down to a cultural bent?
The Japanese were able to make that psychological jump with their "divine wind - Kamikaze" attacks. Out of desperation and reinforced with a cultural beleif that it was justified. This is generally an anathema to the Western mind - unless we are driven by religious zeal and pure hatred (IRA, SS Einsatzgruppen, for example).
Those who are able to do that (to us) unthinkable act are driven by what? I'd venture its a similar type of cutural leaning and radical mind set as that of the Japs in WW2 (Manila - babies on bayonets). Plus the value of life surely cannot be weighed the same way as many who find it unthinkable; that one would commit suicide in such a fashion with the intent not to simply end ones life, but to do harm with that sacrifice.
The Krauts in Russia noted that the further they went Eastwards, the more barbaric became the ways of the people they encountered.
If you peel away the ignorance and miconceptions between East and West what remains then? Is there a fundamental racial difference which prevents us from co-existing? Or is it something more manageable; like a cultural and historical gap?
Big question, I know.
But as to yours (); my own opinion as to the reason suicide bombings is used, is that amongst certain radical circles it is quite simply justifiable. This justification (acceptance) is, in turn, possible because of a universal religious zeal at the ordinary level of society which we in the West haven't had for a hundred years. Hence, as we become more agnostic and twist Christianity into something else - they become stranger and more regressive in our eyes.
Perhaps the "why" of suicide bombing is down to a cultural bent?
The Japanese were able to make that psychological jump with their "divine wind - Kamikaze" attacks. Out of desperation and reinforced with a cultural beleif that it was justified. This is generally an anathema to the Western mind - unless we are driven by religious zeal and pure hatred (IRA, SS Einsatzgruppen, for example).
Those who are able to do that (to us) unthinkable act are driven by what? I'd venture its a similar type of cutural leaning and radical mind set as that of the Japs in WW2 (Manila - babies on bayonets). Plus the value of life surely cannot be weighed the same way as many who find it unthinkable; that one would commit suicide in such a fashion with the intent not to simply end ones life, but to do harm with that sacrifice.
The Krauts in Russia noted that the further they went Eastwards, the more barbaric became the ways of the people they encountered.
If you peel away the ignorance and miconceptions between East and West what remains then? Is there a fundamental racial difference which prevents us from co-existing? Or is it something more manageable; like a cultural and historical gap?
Big question, I know.
But as to yours (
); my own opinion as to the reason suicide bombings is used, is that amongst certain radical circles it is quite simply justifiable. This justification (acceptance) is, in turn, possible because of a universal religious zeal at the ordinary level of society which we in the West haven't had for a hundred years. Hence, as we become more agnostic and twist Christianity into something else - they become stranger and more regressive in our eyes.
Jun 8th 2008, 5:42 pm
#78
Banned
Joined: Mar 2006
Location: Orlando,Florida,living in Buckinghamshire for next 6 weeks.
Posts: 1,416
Re: Anyone STILL set on voting for McCain
Just ask people in the country of Chile, ask them who help to install their dictator.America did.I have spent months in Argentina(a VERY beautiful country) and many people in that nation feel that America's CIA didn't install their dictator but the USA did give support to that regime when it was in power.
The dictators running Argentina were throwing protestors from airplanes 20 thousand feet to their death. We(CIA) knew all this and still gave aid and support to the Regime running Argentina.My first visit to Argentina was in 1990, only a handfull of years removed from when dictators ruled that country.
It was amazing to witness all the mothers and grandmothers who protested in front of the Pink Palace(equal to our White House) early in the morning, about all the babies and young children taken from parents and given to people who were in the military or to those who had political ties to the regime.I mention all this to say we can't ignore the influence good and bad our country has in the world.
Jun 8th 2008, 5:50 pm
#79
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 68,280
Re: Anyone STILL set on voting for McCain
it was incorrect ..
Jun 8th 2008, 5:50 pm
#80
Sursum corda
Joined: Sep 2002
Location: Richmond Hill, GA USA
Posts: 38,860
Re: Anyone STILL set on voting for McCain
In modern history, post WWII there is no doubt that the US has had a great deal of influence for the bad AND the good throughout the world. But what about pre WWII ? I am not excusing some of the stunts that we've pulled by a long shot, but I put it to you where do you stop the analysis of one nation meddling in another's affairs and more importantly where do you start it?
Jun 8th 2008, 5:51 pm
#82
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Joined: Sep 2002
Location: Richmond Hill, GA USA
Posts: 38,860
Jun 8th 2008, 5:59 pm
#84
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Jun 8th 2008, 6:13 pm
#85
Account Closed
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 16,266
Re: Anyone STILL set on voting for McCain
I
African Americans did not gain their freedom in America because of just the will of Black Americans.It was the pressure from the world community and all the good people in America that helped to change the United States.I would never want to surrender to indifference! Having said all that,I can understand how some people do become cynical about life and everything surrounding it.Just hope it never happens to me
African Americans did not gain their freedom in America because of just the will of Black Americans.It was the pressure from the world community and all the good people in America that helped to change the United States.I would never want to surrender to indifference! Having said all that,I can understand how some people do become cynical about life and everything surrounding it.Just hope it never happens to me
Quite frankly, I don't think "world community" usually works [and I'm not limiting myself to the US]. There seems to be a universal "not your problem" reaction to "internal affairs."
The rest of the paragraph I have no problem with.
As an aside, I am somewhat irritated of the references to Barak Obama as the "first black" candidate. After all, is he not continuing the tradition of all presidents having had mothers who were white.
Of course, Mr. Obama identifies himself as "black." However, this reminds me of a friend from South Africa. While the aparthied regime was still in power, she asked me why is the NAACP called the "National Association For the advancement of Colored People" when they were "black." I asked her what she was and she respondeded "colored." I responded, not that I really cared, but she was "black" to me. The thing that go to me was that she opposed racism, but bought into the classification system without a blink! I understand that Mr. Obama self-identifies -- but I object to this renmant of the "one-drop rule."
Jun 8th 2008, 6:13 pm
#86
Riding on silver wings
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 10,543
Re: Anyone STILL set on voting for McCain
NC is gonna love those penguin images. I love'em.
Jun 8th 2008, 6:15 pm
#87
Banned
Joined: Mar 2006
Location: Orlando,Florida,living in Buckinghamshire for next 6 weeks.
Posts: 1,416
Re: Anyone STILL set on voting for McCain
Chimes in.
Perhaps the "why" of suicide bombing is down to a cultural bent?
The Japanese were able to make that psychological jump with their "divine wind - Kamikaze" attacks. Out of desperation and reinforced with a cultural beleif that it was justified. This is generally an anathema to the Western mind - unless we are driven by religious zeal and pure hatred (IRA, SS Einsatzgruppen, for example).
Those who are able to do that (to us) unthinkable act are driven by what? I'd venture its a similar type of cutural leaning and radical mind set as that of the Japs in WW2 (Manila - babies on bayonets). Plus the value of life surely cannot be weighed the same way as many who find it unthinkable; that one would commit suicide in such a fashion with the intent not to simply end ones life, but to do harm with that sacrifice.
The Krauts in Russia noted that the further they went Eastwards, the more barbaric became the ways of the people they encountered.
If you peel away the ignorance and miconceptions between East and West what remains then? Is there a fundamental racial difference which prevents us from co-existing? Or is it something more manageable; like a cultural and historical gap?
Big question, I know.
But as to yours (); my own opinion as to the reason suicide bombings is used, is that amongst certain radical circles it is quite simply justifiable. This justification (acceptance) is, in turn, possible because of a universal religious zeal at the ordinary level of society which we in the West haven't had for a hundred years. Hence, as we become more agnostic and twist Christianity into something else - they become stranger and more regressive in our eyes.
Perhaps the "why" of suicide bombing is down to a cultural bent?
The Japanese were able to make that psychological jump with their "divine wind - Kamikaze" attacks. Out of desperation and reinforced with a cultural beleif that it was justified. This is generally an anathema to the Western mind - unless we are driven by religious zeal and pure hatred (IRA, SS Einsatzgruppen, for example).
Those who are able to do that (to us) unthinkable act are driven by what? I'd venture its a similar type of cutural leaning and radical mind set as that of the Japs in WW2 (Manila - babies on bayonets). Plus the value of life surely cannot be weighed the same way as many who find it unthinkable; that one would commit suicide in such a fashion with the intent not to simply end ones life, but to do harm with that sacrifice.
The Krauts in Russia noted that the further they went Eastwards, the more barbaric became the ways of the people they encountered.
If you peel away the ignorance and miconceptions between East and West what remains then? Is there a fundamental racial difference which prevents us from co-existing? Or is it something more manageable; like a cultural and historical gap?
Big question, I know.
But as to yours (
); my own opinion as to the reason suicide bombings is used, is that amongst certain radical circles it is quite simply justifiable. This justification (acceptance) is, in turn, possible because of a universal religious zeal at the ordinary level of society which we in the West haven't had for a hundred years. Hence, as we become more agnostic and twist Christianity into something else - they become stranger and more regressive in our eyes.If they had B1 Bombers or F-5 fighters I doubt they wouldn't prefer to use that kind of resource instead of killing them self.The Japs used Kamikazes not in the early part of ww2 but closer to the end once most of their resources were nearly gone.
In war you fight with what you have and by the standard of what we are able to use, Kamikazee and suicide bombers seem medival.But if all you have are rocks to throw then that is what you use.
Jun 8th 2008, 6:38 pm
#88
Sursum corda
Joined: Sep 2002
Location: Richmond Hill, GA USA
Posts: 38,860
Re: Anyone STILL set on voting for McCain
Would you agree that poverty plays a huge role in why suicide bombers are used to harm "the so called enemies"?
If they had B1 Bombers or F-5 fighters I doubt they wouldn't prefer to use that kind of resource instead of killing them self.The Japs used Kamikazes not in the early part of ww2 but closer to the end once most of their resources were nearly gone.
In war you fight with what you have and by the standard of what we are able to use, Kamikazee and suicide bombers seem medival.But if all you have are rocks to throw then that is what you use.
If they had B1 Bombers or F-5 fighters I doubt they wouldn't prefer to use that kind of resource instead of killing them self.The Japs used Kamikazes not in the early part of ww2 but closer to the end once most of their resources were nearly gone.
In war you fight with what you have and by the standard of what we are able to use, Kamikazee and suicide bombers seem medival.But if all you have are rocks to throw then that is what you use.
Jun 8th 2008, 8:12 pm
#89
gurt mint nit?
Joined: Nov 2007
Location: In my shed
Posts: 2,776
Re: Anyone STILL set on voting for McCain
Would you agree that poverty plays a huge role in why suicide bombers are used to harm "the so called enemies"?
If they had B1 Bombers or F-5 fighters I doubt they wouldn't prefer to use that kind of resource instead of killing them self.The Japs used Kamikazes not in the early part of ww2 but closer to the end once most of their resources were nearly gone.
In war you fight with what you have and by the standard of what we are able to use, Kamikazee and suicide bombers seem medival.But if all you have are rocks to throw then that is what you use.
If they had B1 Bombers or F-5 fighters I doubt they wouldn't prefer to use that kind of resource instead of killing them self.The Japs used Kamikazes not in the early part of ww2 but closer to the end once most of their resources were nearly gone.
In war you fight with what you have and by the standard of what we are able to use, Kamikazee and suicide bombers seem medival.But if all you have are rocks to throw then that is what you use.
Poverty can help you across that road, but there has to be something in your inner make-up which allows you to go there.
All I'm saying is that some races/peoples are more able to make that leap than others.
The English walked into machine gun fire in WW1, we also walked into cannon and musket in rank and file in America and Europe. That's because we are able to be disciplined and basically downright stubborn as a race.
The Russians did the same thing in the face of German guns in WW2. Over and over again, over the bodies of their comrades. Because they had an incredible capacity to endure suffering and they did not value life as we did.
The crazies in the Middle East have another angle. Religious and cultural zeal. They may be impoverished - but do they want Cadillacs, Range Rovers and swimming pools?
Surely they just want the infidel dead?
Because he is invading their culture and soil?
Philosophy overload.
Jun 8th 2008, 8:20 pm
#90
Banned
Joined: Mar 2006
Location: Orlando,Florida,living in Buckinghamshire for next 6 weeks.
Posts: 1,416
Re: Anyone STILL set on voting for McCain
Hi:
Quite frankly, I don't think "world community" usually works [and I'm not limiting myself to the US]. There seems to be a universal "not your problem" reaction to "internal affairs."
The rest of the paragraph I have no problem with.
As an aside, I am somewhat irritated of the references to Barak Obama as the "first black" candidate. After all, is he not continuing the tradition of all presidents having had mothers who were white.
Of course, Mr. Obama identifies himself as "black." However, this reminds me of a friend from South Africa. While the aparthied regime was still in power, she asked me why is the NAACP called the "National Association For the advancement of Colored People" when they were "black." I asked her what she was and she respondeded "colored." I responded, not that I really cared, but she was "black" to me. The thing that go to me was that she opposed racism, but bought into the classification system without a blink! I understand that Mr. Obama self-identifies -- but I object to this renmant of the "one-drop rule."
Quite frankly, I don't think "world community" usually works [and I'm not limiting myself to the US]. There seems to be a universal "not your problem" reaction to "internal affairs."
The rest of the paragraph I have no problem with.
As an aside, I am somewhat irritated of the references to Barak Obama as the "first black" candidate. After all, is he not continuing the tradition of all presidents having had mothers who were white.
Of course, Mr. Obama identifies himself as "black." However, this reminds me of a friend from South Africa. While the aparthied regime was still in power, she asked me why is the NAACP called the "National Association For the advancement of Colored People" when they were "black." I asked her what she was and she respondeded "colored." I responded, not that I really cared, but she was "black" to me. The thing that go to me was that she opposed racism, but bought into the classification system without a blink! I understand that Mr. Obama self-identifies -- but I object to this renmant of the "one-drop rule."
When I as a African American visit a different country,I experience ethnicity by their standards.When in Canada I haven't seen the same type of thinking about ethnicity in social terms that I have seen in certain areas of the States.Yet in America there are fewer glass ceilings for people of all ethnicities and gender, compared to Europe and the rest of the world.Maybe in part that is due to Europe having fewer nations which have delt with multiculturalism.
Every country seems to have their own point of view on the subject.While in Brazil, I was not considered to be a Black person mainly due to my skin tone ,green eyes and blonde mustache,even though I made it clear that I was proud to be a AA.Keep in mind I wasn't running around bringing up the subject,it was only discussed with those who ask me what country I hailed from and about my ethnicity make-up.My ethnicity often came up in conversation but the question was allways ask out of genuine curiosity and was complimentary.There were people who strongly disagreed with me and went so far as to remind me that America's one drop blood line rule ended at the shores of the United States.
I found it interesting to say the least,that many Brazilians knew about the one drop rule in America.Brazil is another very complicated country in terms of a person's ethnicity.Socially, ethnicity seems to matter alot less there.People marry, date who ever they want and on the surface most people seem not to feel a sociatal pressure to stay with in one group or "with in your own people" type thinking.But economically only one group controls all the wealth and political structure in that country.Asians,Blacks,(our ideal of Latinos)are not on that list.
Lack of educational opportunities is wide spread in Brazil.Most Brazilians are either rich or poor.Amazingly people seem to get along so well.Maybe in part because there is less of a economic divide.A middle class is allmost non existant.BTW,if you ever get the chance to visit Brazil, grab it.I spent 6 weeks down there.Great food,great "entertainment",love the beach life mentality, and the only thing better than the wine were the women.I came back smiling like the joker in the Bat Man movie for months.But I digrest
America needs time to mature on this score so our thinking on social equality can catch up to the standard how we view economic equality.Allthough frustrating,maybe we can't really expect a nation that once sponsored the sin of enslaving humans to quickly evolve in a handful of generations.Its really easy to see how the country is moving forward in the youth of our country.Most of them are light years in their thinking ahead of this country's past beliefs.
Last edited by YankeemovingAbroad; Jun 8th 2008 at 8:47 pm.