About the Andrew SeFaria and Vampier argument.
Jan 9th 2004, 9:01 pm
#136
SUPER CRUNCHY BALCONY COW
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 9,476
Re: About the Andrew SeFaria and Vampier argument.
Originally posted by Leslie66
Thanks for responding Rete. Personally I don't think it's anybody's business what you do or when you do it. Whatever you choose to share is fine, but nobody has any right to question you (or me for that matter).
Oh yeah, my boss and I are both internet junkies. When it's slow I spend a lot of time surfing and he knows it. No, he doesn't know each and every website I go to and I'm sure he could care less. I have no idea what he's doing on the net either, and I could care less. The only thing we discuss is plane tickets (he's a genius when it comes to finding cheap fares.) Occasionally if I find an article that will interest him I will forward it to him. He occasionally prints out stuff for me that he thinks I might find interesting.
Thanks for responding Rete. Personally I don't think it's anybody's business what you do or when you do it. Whatever you choose to share is fine, but nobody has any right to question you (or me for that matter).
Oh yeah, my boss and I are both internet junkies. When it's slow I spend a lot of time surfing and he knows it. No, he doesn't know each and every website I go to and I'm sure he could care less. I have no idea what he's doing on the net either, and I could care less. The only thing we discuss is plane tickets (he's a genius when it comes to finding cheap fares.) Occasionally if I find an article that will interest him I will forward it to him. He occasionally prints out stuff for me that he thinks I might find interesting.
Can he help Sibs and I to find a cheap plane Ticket?
Jan 9th 2004, 9:05 pm
#137
WTF?
Joined: Aug 2003
Location: Homeostasis
Posts: 79,399
Re: About the Andrew SeFaria and Vampier argument.
Originally posted by Hypertweeky
What a cool boss you have!!
Can he help Sibs and I to find a cheap plane Ticket?
What a cool boss you have!!
Can he help Sibs and I to find a cheap plane Ticket?
He is very cool and a good friend. I don't know about the plane tickets though, Hyper. He gave me kind of a blank look when I asked about international flights originating somewhere other than the U.S. He has travelled overseas a lot, but always leaving from here. He does have my stuff on all the fare watchers and I'm checking websites daily. So we'll see who gets the best fare the fastest. It will probably be my husband, you know it is cheaper to buy the plane ticket from Morocco than from here. I have no idea why.
Jan 9th 2004, 9:05 pm
#138
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: About the Andrew SeFaria and Vampier argument.
Leslie66 wrote:
> Originally posted by Andrew Defaria
>> Being an atheist all can say is: Soul?
> A plant doesn't have to "believe" in photosynthesis.
Good thing I'm not a plant! :-)
--
Do illiterate people get the full effect of alphabet soup?
> Originally posted by Andrew Defaria
>> Being an atheist all can say is: Soul?
> A plant doesn't have to "believe" in photosynthesis.
Good thing I'm not a plant! :-)
--
Do illiterate people get the full effect of alphabet soup?
Jan 9th 2004, 9:06 pm
#139
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Jan 2003
Location: Loveland, Colorado
Posts: 409
Re: About the Andrew SeFaria and Vampier argument.
sphyrapicus -
One should never confuse the privilege of paying taxes with the right to vote - sorry, but there is no connection. Another, somewhat parallel complaint I often hear is, " ... well, I'm paying their salaries, gosh darn it (or words to that effect)". That bucket, also, holds no water. That's just how things work, realists get used to the idea.
Richard III
One should never confuse the privilege of paying taxes with the right to vote - sorry, but there is no connection. Another, somewhat parallel complaint I often hear is, " ... well, I'm paying their salaries, gosh darn it (or words to that effect)". That bucket, also, holds no water. That's just how things work, realists get used to the idea.
Richard III
Originally posted by sphyrapicus
Unfortunately, many of us (probably 1/2 of the people on here) have not had the opportunity to vote anyone into office yet (because we have not yet become USCs). It sure is frustrating to have lived legally in this country for 8.5 years and paid taxes in every one of those years but never once been allowed to vote. It seems to me that if one is required to provide a portion of one's income to fill the federal coffers that one should be entitled to vote on the leaders that will decide how that money is used.
One proposal I have is to increase the size of USCIS so they can adequately deal with the backlog. I can apply for and receive a social security card in a few weeks. I can apply for a driver's license and get it within a few weeks. I can apply for a passport and receive it in a few weeks. But, the minute I apply for something at USCIS, it takes months (and sometimes years).
Unfortunately, many of us (probably 1/2 of the people on here) have not had the opportunity to vote anyone into office yet (because we have not yet become USCs). It sure is frustrating to have lived legally in this country for 8.5 years and paid taxes in every one of those years but never once been allowed to vote. It seems to me that if one is required to provide a portion of one's income to fill the federal coffers that one should be entitled to vote on the leaders that will decide how that money is used.
One proposal I have is to increase the size of USCIS so they can adequately deal with the backlog. I can apply for and receive a social security card in a few weeks. I can apply for a driver's license and get it within a few weeks. I can apply for a passport and receive it in a few weeks. But, the minute I apply for something at USCIS, it takes months (and sometimes years).
Jan 9th 2004, 9:14 pm
#140
Member
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 14,049
Re: About the Andrew SeFaria and Vampier argument.
sphy,
I disagree with your first paragraph. Living here as a non-citizen you do share some (but not all) of the burdens, but you also share some (but not all) of the benefits. If you want all of the benefits - and all of the burdens - after 8.5 years here you could possibly be a citizen by now, or close to it. That would get you your voting rights. Actually, I believe that in some localities, local laws do allow non-citizens can vote on certain local issues.
If you have reasons for not wanting to become a citizen, and those reasons outweigh your desire to influence the use of your tax dollars by voting, that was your choice.
Do you know, by the way, if I was living, working, and paying taxes in your country as a non-citizen - would I be allowed to vote? I know that I wouldn't be allowed to vote in my wife's country.
I agree almost completely with your second paragraph. While I don't think the job of the CIS is comparable to those of the SSA or the state DMVs in some important respects, I do agree completely that the CIS should be given the resources it need to do it's job in a timely manner.
Regards, JEff
I disagree with your first paragraph. Living here as a non-citizen you do share some (but not all) of the burdens, but you also share some (but not all) of the benefits. If you want all of the benefits - and all of the burdens - after 8.5 years here you could possibly be a citizen by now, or close to it. That would get you your voting rights. Actually, I believe that in some localities, local laws do allow non-citizens can vote on certain local issues.
If you have reasons for not wanting to become a citizen, and those reasons outweigh your desire to influence the use of your tax dollars by voting, that was your choice.
Do you know, by the way, if I was living, working, and paying taxes in your country as a non-citizen - would I be allowed to vote? I know that I wouldn't be allowed to vote in my wife's country.
I agree almost completely with your second paragraph. While I don't think the job of the CIS is comparable to those of the SSA or the state DMVs in some important respects, I do agree completely that the CIS should be given the resources it need to do it's job in a timely manner.
Regards, JEff
Originally posted by sphyrapicus
Unfortunately, many of us (probably 1/2 of the people on here) have not had the opportunity to vote anyone into office yet (because we have not yet become USCs). It sure is frustrating to have lived legally in this country for 8.5 years and paid taxes in every one of those years but never once been allowed to vote. It seems to me that if one is required to provide a portion of one's income to fill the federal coffers that one should be entitled to vote on the leaders that will decide how that money is used.
One proposal I have is to increase the size of USCIS so they can adequately deal with the backlog. I can apply for and receive a social security card in a few weeks. I can apply for a driver's license and get it within a few weeks. I can apply for a passport and receive it in a few weeks. But, the minute I apply for something at USCIS, it takes months (and sometimes years).
Unfortunately, many of us (probably 1/2 of the people on here) have not had the opportunity to vote anyone into office yet (because we have not yet become USCs). It sure is frustrating to have lived legally in this country for 8.5 years and paid taxes in every one of those years but never once been allowed to vote. It seems to me that if one is required to provide a portion of one's income to fill the federal coffers that one should be entitled to vote on the leaders that will decide how that money is used.
One proposal I have is to increase the size of USCIS so they can adequately deal with the backlog. I can apply for and receive a social security card in a few weeks. I can apply for a driver's license and get it within a few weeks. I can apply for a passport and receive it in a few weeks. But, the minute I apply for something at USCIS, it takes months (and sometimes years).
Jan 9th 2004, 9:22 pm
#141
Member
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 14,049
Re: About the Andrew SeFaria and Vampier argument.
Richard,
I disagree with you, and so did the Founding Fathers. The War of Independence was fought over the colonist's privilege of paying taxes to the Crown without having a vote in Parliament.
The connection is the issue of citizenship. The colonists were British citizens. If sphy were an American citizen and couldn't vote, then he would have a legitimate complaint.
Regards, JEff
I disagree with you, and so did the Founding Fathers. The War of Independence was fought over the colonist's privilege of paying taxes to the Crown without having a vote in Parliament.
The connection is the issue of citizenship. The colonists were British citizens. If sphy were an American citizen and couldn't vote, then he would have a legitimate complaint.
Regards, JEff
Originally posted by Richard III
sphyrapicus -
One should never confuse the privilege of paying taxes with the right to vote - sorry, but there is no connection. ...
Richard III
sphyrapicus -
One should never confuse the privilege of paying taxes with the right to vote - sorry, but there is no connection. ...
Richard III
Jan 9th 2004, 9:27 pm
#142
SUPER CRUNCHY BALCONY COW
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 9,476
Re: About the Andrew SeFaria and Vampier argument.
Originally posted by Leslie66
He is very cool and a good friend. I don't know about the plane tickets though, Hyper. He gave me kind of a blank look when I asked about international flights originating somewhere other than the U.S. He has travelled overseas a lot, but always leaving from here. He does have my stuff on all the fare watchers and I'm checking websites daily. So we'll see who gets the best fare the fastest. It will probably be my husband, you know it is cheaper to buy the plane ticket from Morocco than from here. I have no idea why.
He is very cool and a good friend. I don't know about the plane tickets though, Hyper. He gave me kind of a blank look when I asked about international flights originating somewhere other than the U.S. He has travelled overseas a lot, but always leaving from here. He does have my stuff on all the fare watchers and I'm checking websites daily. So we'll see who gets the best fare the fastest. It will probably be my husband, you know it is cheaper to buy the plane ticket from Morocco than from here. I have no idea why.
Let me know who gets the cheapest fare ok?
Jan 9th 2004, 9:40 pm
#143
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Jan 2003
Location: Loveland, Colorado
Posts: 409
Re: About the Andrew SeFaria and Vampier argument.
JEff -
I agree, something about a harbo(u)r somewhere on the east coast and some tea... Nevertheless, there is no direct connection between paying taxes in the US and voting. As you say, the link is citizenship. Funny how much a single piece of paper means. ;^)
Richard III
I agree, something about a harbo(u)r somewhere on the east coast and some tea... Nevertheless, there is no direct connection between paying taxes in the US and voting. As you say, the link is citizenship. Funny how much a single piece of paper means. ;^)
Richard III
Originally posted by jeffreyhy
Richard,
I disagree with you, and so did the Founding Fathers. The War of Independence was fought over the colonist's privilege of paying taxes to the Crown without having a vote in Parliament.
The connection is the issue of citizenship. The colonists were British citizens. If sphy were an American citizen and couldn't vote, then he would have a legitimate complaint.
Regards, JEff
Richard,
I disagree with you, and so did the Founding Fathers. The War of Independence was fought over the colonist's privilege of paying taxes to the Crown without having a vote in Parliament.
The connection is the issue of citizenship. The colonists were British citizens. If sphy were an American citizen and couldn't vote, then he would have a legitimate complaint.
Regards, JEff
Jan 9th 2004, 9:45 pm
#144
SUPER CRUNCHY BALCONY COW
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 9,476
Re: About the Andrew SeFaria and Vampier argument.
Originally posted by Richard III
JEff -
I agree, something about a harbo(u)r somewhere on the east coast and some tea... Nevertheless, there is no direct connection between paying taxes in the US and voting. As you say, the link is citizenship. Funny how much a single piece of paper means. ;^)
Richard III
JEff -
I agree, something about a harbo(u)r somewhere on the east coast and some tea... Nevertheless, there is no direct connection between paying taxes in the US and voting. As you say, the link is citizenship. Funny how much a single piece of paper means. ;^)
Richard III
Jan 9th 2004, 9:46 pm
#145
WTF?
Joined: Aug 2003
Location: Homeostasis
Posts: 79,399
Re: About the Andrew SeFaria and Vampier argument.
Originally posted by Hypertweeky
I will never be able to vote, not fair
I will never be able to vote, not fair
Why?
Jan 9th 2004, 9:51 pm
#146
SUPER CRUNCHY BALCONY COW
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 9,476
Re: About the Andrew SeFaria and Vampier argument.
Originally posted by Leslie66
Why?
Why?
I can vote in Spain.. but not in the US. Why? Because I can't have dual citizenship
not fair huh?
Jan 9th 2004, 10:34 pm
#147
Concierge
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 46,423
Re: About the Andrew SeFaria and Vampier argument.
Originally posted by Hypertweeky
I can vote in Spain.. but not in the US. Why? Because I can't have dual citizenship not fair huh?
I can vote in Spain.. but not in the US. Why? Because I can't have dual citizenship
not fair huh?
But who has put this unfairness on your plate? Your government has. But in time, your government might change its laws and allow you to accept citizenship in another country without having to formally lose your Spanish citizenship.
Another thing to take into consideration is where you will be spending the rest of your life. You have opted to marry an American and have opted to live in the US. I don't know your plans and whether you ever plan on returning to Spain to live and it is not my business to know your personal plans. These are matters that you must weigh when you decide where your interests truly lie in the years to come. Here in the US where you are living and raising a family or to a country which is your homeland by birth but no longer your home.
I have a good friend who met her now husband in the chatroom where I met my husband. We married around the same time. She is a British subject and has been a resident in the US since the 1960's. She has two grown sons and has never become a US Citizen. She is quite happy living that way and although on occasion will mention one day applying for US naturalizaiton has never done so and yet she said she has no desire to ever resume a life in England. The US has been her home for over 30 years and will remain so. So who is the loser in her situation? I see the losers to be her and the US, itself, because they do not have the power of her vote to help shape the government that shapes her life.
Rete
Jan 9th 2004, 10:38 pm
#148
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: About the Andrew SeFaria and Vampier argument.
sphyrapicus wrote:
> Originally posted by Rete
>> ...sent to the people we voted into office advising them of what our
>> collective thoughts...
> Unfortunately, many of us (probably 1/2 of the people on here) have not
> had the opportunity to vote anyone into office yet (because we have not
> yet become USCs). It sure is frustrating to have lived legally in this
> country for 8.5 years and paid taxes in every one of those years but
> never once been allowed to vote. It seems to me that if one is required
> to provide a portion of one's income to fill the federal coffers that
> one should be entitled to vote on the leaders that will decide how that
> money is used.
> One proposal I have is to increase the size of USCIS so they can
> adequately deal with the backlog. I can apply for and receive a social
> security card in a few weeks. I can apply for a driver's license and get
> it within a few weeks. I can apply for a passport and receive it in a
> few weeks. But, the minute I apply for something at USCIS, it takes
> months (and sometimes years).
Hey wait a second! You can't hijack this thread and turn it into a
serious discussion! ;-)
--
What is a "free" gift ? Aren't all gifts free?
> Originally posted by Rete
>> ...sent to the people we voted into office advising them of what our
>> collective thoughts...
> Unfortunately, many of us (probably 1/2 of the people on here) have not
> had the opportunity to vote anyone into office yet (because we have not
> yet become USCs). It sure is frustrating to have lived legally in this
> country for 8.5 years and paid taxes in every one of those years but
> never once been allowed to vote. It seems to me that if one is required
> to provide a portion of one's income to fill the federal coffers that
> one should be entitled to vote on the leaders that will decide how that
> money is used.
> One proposal I have is to increase the size of USCIS so they can
> adequately deal with the backlog. I can apply for and receive a social
> security card in a few weeks. I can apply for a driver's license and get
> it within a few weeks. I can apply for a passport and receive it in a
> few weeks. But, the minute I apply for something at USCIS, it takes
> months (and sometimes years).
Hey wait a second! You can't hijack this thread and turn it into a
serious discussion! ;-)
--
What is a "free" gift ? Aren't all gifts free?
Jan 9th 2004, 10:42 pm
#149
Maño-Americano
Joined: Apr 2003
Location: In the heart of the Ozarks
Posts: 10,216
Re: About the Andrew SeFaria and Vampier argument.
Originally posted by Hypertweeky
I can vote in Spain.. but not in the US. Why? Because I can't have dual citizenship not fair huh?
I can vote in Spain.. but not in the US. Why? Because I can't have dual citizenship
not fair huh?
Jan 9th 2004, 10:44 pm
#150
Banned
Joined: Sep 2002
Location: United States
Posts: 3,825
Re: About the Andrew SeFaria and Vampier argument.
Questions 87 on the list of 100 sample Naturalization test questions reads, "What is the most important right granted to U.S. citizens".
Answer, the right to vote.
Answer, the right to vote.