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Steve_ Sep 11th 2015 11:33 am

Re: 2016 Election
 

Originally Posted by FlaviusAetius (Post 11742169)
You can't gerrymander the Presidency. The President is elected by the Electoral College.

Which imo is actually another example of gerrymandering, seeing as Gore won the popular vote in 2000. Doesn't alter the fact there are a huge number of Americans who can't vote for the President even though they live in the US.

Like I said, strict voter ID laws. Absurd requirements for allowing people convicted of a crime to vote. Not allowing people in the territories to vote.

All measures that help Republicans.

FlaviusAetius Sep 11th 2015 11:43 am

Re: 2016 Election
 

Originally Posted by Steve_ (Post 11746259)
Which imo is actually another example of gerrymandering, seeing as Gore won the popular vote in 2000. Doesn't alter the fact there are a huge number of Americans who can't vote for the President even though they live in the US.

Like I said, strict voter ID laws. Absurd requirements for allowing people convicted of a crime to vote. Not allowing people in the territories to vote.

All measures that help Republicans.

Well, the Electoral College was around long before the Republican Party came into existence. We do believe in (or at least pay lip service to) the sanctity of the ballot box - and in some cities, the right of the deceased to vote as well. People who are convicted of felonies in many states are not allowed to vote primarily because they usually don't vote for Republicans. Those convicted of misdemeanors are free to vote in most or all states.

Winning the majority of the vote doesn't get you elected because you can run up huge majorities in states like California and New York, but lose because you don't get a majority in the Electoral College. Understand, we do not - and never have had - direct elections for President. Just like you guys in the Great White North, for the most part, didn't get to vote for Stephen Harper.

Finally, huge numbers of Americans, who are registered to vote and who could vote, don't vote for many reasons. Some too lazy, not involved, don't like their choices, etc, etc. Only in totalitarian states, like Soviet Russia, back in the day, and North Korea, do you get better than 90% voting, even though your choices on the ballot are pretty limited.

Steve_ Sep 11th 2015 11:45 am

Re: 2016 Election
 

Originally Posted by username.exe (Post 11744621)
McCain was born in the Panama Canal zone, and Cruz is a naturally born Canadian... but for some reason this it doesn't seem to be that big of an issue this time around. :huh:

The whole thing is horse manure because it's not really based on where you are born, it's based on whether your parents (or in McCain's case his father) are US citizens. The Constitution says "natural born" not, "born in the US".

Even if Obama had been born in Kenya, he would still be a natural born US citizen.

The Panama Canal Zone was never an organized territory and you don't get US citizenship by virtue of having been born there. At the time US nationality law required your father to be a US citizen to bestow US citizenship, which is why McCain is "natural born".

Ted Cruz is in a similar situation.

If neither of your parents were US citizens at the time you were born, then it might be an issue.

While we're on the subject of the Constitution, a lot of Americans seem to treat it with almost religious fervour. Personally I think it is a boring and unimaginative document, what makes it interesting is the Bill of Rights and the 14th Amendment.

sir_eccles Sep 11th 2015 11:48 am

Re: 2016 Election
 

Originally Posted by FlaviusAetius (Post 11746256)
We should take a poll: who's next: George Pataki? Jim Gilmore? (is he still in?), Rand Paul? Lindsey Graham? Bobbie the Kid Jindal?

I think Chris Christie will stick around for a while but not be a quarter finalist. It's between him and Trey Gowdy for AG if a R wins.

My guess for the Final Four: Trump, Carson, Bush and either Fiorina or Cruz for the last seat.

I don't think Carson has enough cash neither does Fiorina, both could be angling for VP. Rubio might make the cut instead.

A lot comes down to name recognition. Policy is almost immaterial. As much as everyone grumbles about the Bush legacy, he has the biggest name out there and may win just because of it or because the media tells us to vote for him.

Steve_ Sep 11th 2015 11:50 am

Re: 2016 Election
 

Originally Posted by FlaviusAetius (Post 11746261)
Well, the Electoral College was around long before the Republican Party came into existence.

The fact that it has been allowed to persevere even though it is clearly obsolete is a form of gerrymandering. There is no consensus on getting rid of it because one side or the other sees a small advantage in keeping it.

And the Queen is the head of state, not Stephen Harper. And given the shower of idiots you've got to choose from and the Queen, I think it's time to start humming God Save the Queen. :p

sir_eccles Sep 11th 2015 11:51 am

Re: 2016 Election
 

Originally Posted by Steve_ (Post 11746263)
While we're on the subject of the Constitution, a lot of Americans seem to pick and choose which bits to treat with almost religious fervour. Personally I think it is a boring and unimaginative document, what makes it interesting is the Bill of Rights and the 14th Amendment.

fify

Steve_ Sep 11th 2015 11:55 am

Re: 2016 Election
 

Originally Posted by sir_eccles (Post 11746265)
A lot comes down to name recognition. Policy is almost immaterial.

You know I was watching Who Wants To Be A Millionaire last night and one of the contestants was a woman who had to pick the genre of an album made in 1973. One of the options was: "Techno". She thought it might be that. And then decided to skip the question. :unsure:

If aliens visited from another planet and judged the US based on their TV, e.g. the elections they'd probably leave rapidly. Perhaps they have. Perhaps, this is a cunning strategy by the DoD to ensure that space aliens never land.

FlaviusAetius Sep 11th 2015 12:03 pm

Re: 2016 Election
 

Originally Posted by Steve_ (Post 11746263)
While we're on the subject of the Constitution, a lot of Americans seem to treat it with almost religious fervour. Personally I think it is a boring and unimaginative document, what makes it interesting is the Bill of Rights and the 14th Amendment.

Not many Americans treat the Constitution with a religious fervour, only those parts that they like; sort of like the way some religious people like to quote their favourite sections of the Bible.

The US Constitution may be boring, but it fits together rather well and, supplemented by the Bill of Rights, is a rather nice piece of work. Never forget, the original document and the Bill of Rights was written by a bunch of rebellious Englishmen.

Now the Canadian Constitution...that's the most fragmented piece of work in the constitution business. At least 25 different parts cobbled together with various Constitution Acts of this or that year to try to make it all of a piece.:rofl:

FlaviusAetius Sep 11th 2015 12:08 pm

Re: 2016 Election
 

Originally Posted by Steve_ (Post 11746268)

And the Queen is the head of state, not Stephen Harper. And given the shower of idiots you've got to choose from and the Queen, I think it's time to start humming God Save the Queen. :p

Right, how many Canadians elected her? Talk about gerrymandering!:lol:

By the way I love Canada, PEI is my second home.

Steve_ Sep 11th 2015 12:23 pm

Re: 2016 Election
 

Originally Posted by FlaviusAetius (Post 11746273)
Now the Canadian Constitution...that's the most fragmented piece of work in the constitution business. At least 25 different parts cobbled together with various Constitution Acts of this or that year to try to make it all of a piece.:rofl:

Not really, the Constitution Act (as amended) is the main bit. Things like the Bill of Rights 1689 and the Magna Carta 1215 might inform questions surrounding common law but that rarely comes up.

Steve_ Sep 11th 2015 12:24 pm

Re: 2016 Election
 
Anyway, not that I care because I really, really don't but:


Giantaxe Sep 11th 2015 12:59 pm

Re: 2016 Election
 
Voting rights for convicted criminals. No surprise as to which states are the most restrictive, and which the most lenient:

https://www.aclu.org/map/state-crimi...ement-laws-map

RoadWarriorFromLP Sep 11th 2015 2:37 pm

Re: 2016 Election
 

Originally Posted by Steve_ (Post 11746259)
Which imo is actually another example of gerrymandering

As usual, your opinion is off the mark.

The president represents the states and the people, not just the people. The number of electoral votes equals the number of representatives in Congress (plus three for DC) for a reason. The states have their own interests, and the presidency also represents them.

RoadWarriorFromLP Sep 11th 2015 2:38 pm

Re: 2016 Election
 

Originally Posted by Giantaxe (Post 11746302)
Voting rights for convicted criminals. No surprise as to which states are the most restrictive, and which the most lenient:

https://www.aclu.org/map/state-crimi...ement-laws-map

"Voter fraud" is when Democrats are allowed to vote.

FlaviusAetius Sep 11th 2015 2:54 pm

Re: 2016 Election
 

Originally Posted by RoadWarriorFromLP (Post 11746335)
"Voter fraud" is when Democrats are allowed to vote.

Correct.


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