If the immigration standard is limited to those who I want in my house, then the only people who will be receiving green cards will be attractive women who are eager to engage in deviant sexual acts with each other and with me (preferably at the same time.)

In other words, your argument sucks.

It shows that your Bernie-could-have-won argument is terribly flawed.

Go figure out why black turnout was down in key areas, and you'll have a better idea of what happened. Then consider the likelihood that black turnout would have been even lower than it was if Sanders had been the nominee.

I am not sure where documents come into it, do you mean status.

Perhaps I have been around too long but there are many examples of descriptive terms that get changed, of course the new term just takes on all the connotations of the old one and then that gets changed and so we go on.

Some time back there was a similar conversation on a forum focussing on Prospective Citizens, the lady posting was married to a Prospective Citizen and used the term illegal, and then followed pages of discussion, she was told to say Undocumented but he had documents, just not the right ones and did not understand the issue.

It is amusing the games we play.

So you didn't actually read what I wrote then.

Legalizing....clamping down on employers that defy the law...and raising the minimum wage for a start.

So 3 things, 2 of which would be more attractive and one which would be a deterrent.


I have seen stories about people who di legalise through marriage, had been working here for years and when they came back all legal had trouble finding work.

A legal employee roofer if we assume $12 an hour would round out at $20 an hour, or pay a no questions asked labour sub contractor $8 an hour?

Up the numbers of course as we have done in Colorado and which I have no problem with and the difference just becomes even bigger.

We are not even at a point of offending or not, just boring old best practice in use of language.

Some interesting resemblances to comments made recently about Trump.

This 1922 quote about Hitler has chilling parallels with Donald Trump
https://www.indy100.com/article/this...-trump-7413406

Sounds about right.

Anyone can see that when the far-right whips people up bad things follow. My fear is that we'll get an equivalent of the Reichstag Fire - the results might be unimaginable.

This is where we are, Unknownistan. A land of unknown unknowns. Trump seems to be back sliding, and we might all wonder what the fuss was about. Or something could happen and the unforeseen consequences could take us anywhere.

A new low for America.

Turkish government issues US travel advisory after anti-Trump protests - CNNPolitics.com

So...Godwin's Law only applies to those arguing from the right? Reductio ad Hitlerum.

Perhaps, if it wouldn't offend either the subject of the discussion or anyone here, the subject, who entered and remained in the country without sanction of law could simply be referred to as a PD, "Prospective Democrat."

The other part of the discussion gets serious, i.e. exploitation of the PD by employers. As a - now thankfully retired - Workers' Compensation lawyer, I represented a number of PDs in my time. Contractors would hire them as "Independent Contractors" so that when they cut off their hand with a power saw or fell off a roof they could wash their hands of them. Before injuries occurred, the contractor (many of them Hispanics themselves) would threaten to report them to Immigration if there were any complaints about wages or working conditions - part of that exploitation.

If you could get past the IC or other defense, under a Pennsylvania Supreme Court decision (Reinforced Earth), PDs were eligible for WC indemnity (wage) benefits only so long as they were totally disabled and then would be suspended - it made no difference that even when improved to partially disabled their injury was career-ending. The tragedy in many cases was then that, not being eligible for SSD, SSI or welfare, they would have to live on the charity of others.

As for paying taxes, in most cases the contractors paid them under the table, in cash, so that proving their average weekly wage for indemnity benefits was next to impossible, as they normally had never filed a tax return. Many of these PDs had less than a 4th grade education and were frequently illiterate in Spanish, not to mention having no English skills whatsoever. Larger, legitimate employers - such as warehouses - at least in our area, hired few PDs. The Philadelphia "migras" were pretty aggressive, do those employers usually had I-9 Forms on file with sufficient documentation to protect themselves. Of course, false SS cards are easy and cheap to obtain in Philadelphia and NYC, so to that extent, where the employee is employed under a dodgy SS card, taxes are being withheld by the employer, so perhaps the Government gets its due.

I agree with others, and my experience with the hundreds of Hispanic clients I represented over the years (most of them fully documented and proud of it), is that they are hard-working and reliable people, willing to do the crap jobs that most Americans won't get off their arses to do, so long as those Americans can live better on the safety net than by working. It was interesting, as the years went by, to see the second generation helping with translation for their parents and that the third generation frequently spoke only English. That they won't assimilate may be true in Cali, but not here in Penna.

Your tax argument needs reconsidering. This article is an eye opener and I hope you read it. And it does not take into account the tax revenue from businesses tlhat sell or provide services to them.

Undocumented own U.S. homes, pay billions in taxes - CBS News