Originally Posted by Leslie (Post 12100782)

My coworker is being bullied on Facebook because she, as a Hillary supporter, is rightfully hurt and disappointed. She's been called names all day by people she actually knows from her small town. This is from the people that actually won the election. I was looking at some of their comments and feeds. There was one hilarious and tortuous threat for Texas to secede now that his guy has won --- he seems to have misunderstood what winning the presidency actually means. And then a whole lot of batshittery from religious nutters. This all was God's plan to vanquish the anti-Christ (Hillary) and Trump is some sort of avenging angel sent straight from heaven. Literally, somebody called Trump, "God's #1 truth warrior" ... :blink: Honestly though, they were saying very little about Trump or his policies, they seem completely fixated on staying as angry as they possibly can for as long as they possibly can.

I am well aware that everybody that voted for Trump is not as stated above. I've spoken to a lot of normal people in rural Texas who simply held their nose and voted the party line.

Originally Posted by dakota44 (Post 12101457)

Ford gave Nixon a full pardon for "any crime he may have committed" while President. It passed Constitutional muster.

Originally Posted by MidAtlantic (Post 12101462)

I know but it doesn't mean he had authority to do it.

Do you think Trump would just let it go if Obama did it? I think it all fits with his rigged system rhetoric.

Originally Posted by Ebonhawke (Post 12101423)

One of the challenges of a Trump administration is that the way his hand is forced to continue driving the same rhetoric that he did on the campaign trail, with a greater uncertainty of the outcome.

One of the key aspects of his campaign was that Clinton was crooked and she should be locked up. He had mentioned in one of the debates that he was going to appoint a special prosecutor to look into her situation. Ignoring whether the President appointing an investigator to look into his former opponent's situation, he essentially has two choices.

1. Try to appear to be conciliatory and decline to further pursue Clinton on her alleged email or pay-to-play issues. This wouldn't be consistent with the temperament that Trump has shown, and it also is an about-face on one of his key messages - which would not go over well with his supporters.

2. Investigate Clinton. Again, could go one of two ways

a) She's found guilty of deleting emails that were under subpoena, or that her foundation engaged in 'pay-to-play' activity. Just as Trump has alleged all along. Problem: Trump has deleted emails in the past as part of court investigations, and his Foundation also has significant issues with perceived illegal activity. If she's convicted, he might very well be convicted too using the same precedent. Lock them both up!

b) She's found not guilty. This would be a repudiation of everything that Trump has said on the campaign trail. Since it's Trump's prosecutor, he can't really complain about a biased investigation etc. If Clinton was inclined, this finding would be a basis for a defamation lawsuit that should be rather winnable. As a candidate for President of the United States, and (assuming she goes back to working for the Clinton Foundation) a prominent member of a highly-visible charitable organization, the damages would be on an astronomical scale. Would likely mean the dismantling/bankruptcy of the Trump organization

So it's quite conceivable that this single issue could lead to Trump suffering reprisals (at least) from his base, jail time, or the dismantling of his business 'empire'

Originally Posted by jeepster (Post 12101459)

If Trump is successful he'll pull our political parties to the center as right now they're both far right (Republican) and Center right (Democrat). Change is good.

Originally Posted by dakota44 (Post 12101466)

He had full authority to do it. It also saved the country from the trauma of a lengthy and damaging impeachment process.

Originally Posted by MidAtlantic (Post 12101462)

I know but it doesn't mean he had authority to do it.

Do you think Trump would just let it go if Obama did it? I think it all fits with his rigged system rhetoric.

Originally Posted by anotherlimey (Post 12101348)

When he said all Mexicans are rapists, he's already proven to be racist, there's no grey area here or accusations to throw around.

When he said he rates women on a scale, or only cares if they're pretty with nice boobs, or it's OK to grab them by the pussy etc etc, there's no gray area, he's a misogynistic twat who is endorsing sexual assault.

But of course it's ok because he's promised job protection.... ironically for a Republican.

Originally Posted by Giantaxe (Post 12101471)

Nixon was pardoned long after he resigned as president. What saved the country from a " lengthy and damaging impeachment process" was that his own party eventually convinced him it was time for him to go.

Edit: I see it was only a month after. However, impeachment proceedings were dropped the moment he resigned.

Originally Posted by FlaviusAetius (Post 12101468)

Perhaps the best route for Trump with this conundrum is to negotiate with both Obama and Clinton for a comprehensive resolution. It might be along lines as follows: Trump would pardon both Hillary and Bill for everything they might have done, including both the email issue and their dealings with the Foundation. The pardon would extend to her principal aides, including Huma and Cheryl. In exchange, the Foundation would be dissolved, and ALL of its assets transferred to a basket of legitimate charities, such as the Red Cross. The Clintons to have no say in which charities receive which amounts, of course.

This solution would avoid the problem of Trump being pressured to appoint a special prosecutor with years of investigation that would look like a political witch hunt. It would also satisfy his core supporters that the Clintons would not benefit in the future from what they consider to be 'pay to play' on a grand and unprecedented scale: proceeds of the sale of her office as Secretary of State and futures for her sale of the office of the Presidency.

Not perfect, but at least one possible solution. There should be others.

As for any issues with Trump's foundation or the University, he should settle the University cases for whatever its cost to him, and he should transfer the Foundation to others and cut all ties with it. He needs to concentrate his energies on being a President for all of us.

Originally Posted by dakota44 (Post 12101479)

The pardon was offered to Nixon only if he agreed to resign.

Originally Posted by FlaviusAetius (Post 12101468)

Perhaps the best route for Trump with this conundrum is to negotiate with both Obama and Clinton for a comprehensive resolution. It might be along lines as follows: Trump would pardon both Hillary and Bill for everything they might have done, including both the email issue and their dealings with the Foundation. The pardon would extend to her principal aides, including Huma and Cheryl. In exchange, the Foundation would be dissolved, and ALL of its assets transferred to a basket of legitimate charities, such as the Red Cross.

This solution would avoid the problem of Trump being pressured to appoint a special prosecutor with years of investigation that would look like a political witch hunt. It would also satisfy his core supporters that the Clintons would not benefit in the future from what they consider to be 'pay to play' on a grand and unprecedented scale: proceeds of the sale of her office as Secretary of State and futures for her sale of the office of the Presidency.

Not perfect, but at least one possible solution. There should be others.

As for any issues with Trump's foundation or the University, he should settle the University cases for whatever its cost to him, and he should transfer the Foundation to others and cut all ties with it. He needs to concentrate his energies in being a President for all of us.

Originally Posted by Ebonhawke (Post 12101485)

A couple of challenges to the above scenario

- Trump and his senior aides have all shown vindictive tendencies. I doubt that Trump will simply pardon them without having a chance to reap vengeance.

- I would imagine that the efforts of the Clinton Foundation are a great source of pride for both Bill and Hlilary. The successes of the Foundation are well documented, and I doubt that either Bill or Hillary will want to stop the work that the Foundation is doing to make AIDS treatments more affordable.

- Since neither Clinton is a part of Trump's government (and I doubt likely either will desire to hold government office again), there's no potential chance for pay-for-play in the future. Their foundation will be essentially lobbyists, similar to other charitable organizations.

Originally Posted by Giantaxe (Post 12101482)

Not according to Ford. I wonder whether there's any evidence to support this contention?

Originally Posted by morpeth (Post 12101481)

How on earth transfer his business ownership to a "blind trust" if his children keep running the business ?