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Old May 11th 2016 | 8:49 am
  #7261  
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Default Re: 2016 Election

Originally Posted by RoadWarriorFromLP
OK, so now he has no credibility because he doesn't agree with you. Thanks for the tip.
Now, who's misrepresenting what someone said?

It's a FACT that he didn't think Trump would win the GOP nomination despite the polls showing otherwise. It has nothing to do with whether I agree with him.
 
Old May 11th 2016 | 8:50 am
  #7262  
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Default Re: 2016 Election

Originally Posted by RoadWarriorFromLP
Yes, God forbid that we rely upon historical trends to understand what is going on.
The reality is that a lot of Americans don't care about politics. If you want any proof of that, then all you need to do is to compare voter turnout in the primaries vs. turnout in general elections. Don't confuse your fixation on the election with the average person's level of interest.
"Don't confuse your fixation" with rules with the reality of the exceptions that prove them.

aka: "real life"
 
Old May 11th 2016 | 8:55 am
  #7263  
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Default Re: 2016 Election

Originally Posted by zargof
Now, who's misrepresenting what someone said?

It's a FACT that he didn't think Trump would win the GOP nomination despite the polls showing otherwise. It has nothing to do with whether I agree with him.
You're engaging in the so-and-so-is-a-failure-because-he-isn't-perfect fallacy.
 
Old May 11th 2016 | 8:57 am
  #7264  
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Default Re: 2016 Election

Originally Posted by MMcD
"Don't confuse your fixation" with rules with the reality of the exceptions that prove them.

aka: "real life"
What exceptions have been proven? Last I checked, the election is still six months away.

If the numbers of those polls were reversed, I would be saying exactly the same thing: It's too early to bank on general election polls, particularly when one of the parties has supporters who are convinced that there isn't yet a presumptive nominee.
 
Old May 11th 2016 | 8:58 am
  #7265  
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Default Re: 2016 Election

Originally Posted by zargof
It's a FACT that he didn't think Trump would win the GOP nomination despite the polls showing otherwise. It has nothing to do with whether I agree with him.
And it's a fact that Silver says it's too early to start making predictions about the general election. So... how is this even relevant?
 
Old May 11th 2016 | 8:59 am
  #7266  
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Default Re: 2016 Election

Originally Posted by RoadWarriorFromLP
You're engaging in the so-and-so-is-a-failure-because-he-isn't-perfect fallacy.
No I'm countering your appeal to authority fallacy with the suggestion that Nate Silver isn't that much of an authority on this election.
 
Old May 11th 2016 | 9:03 am
  #7267  
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Default Re: 2016 Election

Originally Posted by zargof
No I'm countering your appeal to authority fallacy with the suggestion that Nate Silver isn't that much of an authority on this election.
I'm not the one who initially referenced Nate Silver. I simply quoted him and indicated that his points were similar to mine.
 
Old May 11th 2016 | 9:07 am
  #7268  
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Default Re: 2016 Election

Originally Posted by Giantaxe
And it's a fact that Silver says it's too early to start making predictions about the general election. So... how is this even relevant?
Yes he says it's too early, but what is the evidence? Historical precedence? Turns out at this stage in the general election polls are pretty predictive.

What head-to-head election polls tell us about November
 
Old May 11th 2016 | 9:14 am
  #7269  
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Default Re: 2016 Election

Originally Posted by zargof
Yes he says it's too early, but what is the evidence? Historical precedence? Turns out at this stage in the general election polls are pretty predictive.
If you believe that to be the case, why are you even bringing Silver into the discussion?

I'm baffled at the logic of your argumentation here, although I do share your concern that we could well end up with a President Trump.

Last edited by Giantaxe; May 11th 2016 at 9:27 am.
 
Old May 11th 2016 | 9:18 am
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Default Re: 2016 Election

Originally Posted by zargof
Yes he says it's too early, but what is the evidence? Historical precedence? Turns out at this stage in the general election polls are pretty predictive.

What head-to-head election polls tell us about November
The correlation between polling results gets worse as the time prior to the election increases.

You've also been selective in your use of numbers. Using averages of the last several Trump vs Clinton state polls per Real Clear Politics:

-Clinton leads Trump in Florida: RealClearPolitics - Election 2016 - Florida: Trump vs. Clinton

-Clinton leads Trump in Ohio: RealClearPolitics - Election 2016 - Ohio: Trump vs. Clinton

-Clinton leads Trump in Pennsylvania: RealClearPolitics - Election 2016 - Pennsylvania: Trump vs. Clinton

I realize that you want to hang onto your "Sanders was more electable than Clinton" argument, but that's starting to sound like sour grapes, given the commanding lead that Clinton has in the Democratic primary popular vote tally.

You should also note that I would not use the polling results to conclude that Clinton is sure to win Florida, Ohio and Pennsylvania. As I noted before, it's too early.
 
Old May 11th 2016 | 9:28 am
  #7271  
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Default Re: 2016 Election

Originally Posted by Giantaxe
If you believe that to be the case, why are you even bringing Silver into the discussion?

I'm baffled at the logic of your argumentation here, although I di share your concern that we could well end up with a President Trump.
I didn't bring Nate Silver into the discussion. Roadie was using the appeal to authority (Silver) to show that the general election polls don't matter. However, the numbers disagree.

I don't understand why you're baffled. It seems straightforward enough to me.
 
Old May 11th 2016 | 9:34 am
  #7272  
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Default Re: 2016 Election

Originally Posted by zargof
I didn't bring Nate Silver into the discussion. Roadie was using the appeal to authority (Silver) to show that the general election polls don't matter. However, the numbers disagree.

I don't understand why you're baffled. It seems straightforward enough to me.
Silver was introduced into this discussion by sir_eccles (post 7254) and yourself (post 7256).

So, yeh, I'm baffled.
 
Old May 11th 2016 | 9:36 am
  #7273  
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Default Re: 2016 Election

Originally Posted by zargof
Roadie was using the appeal to authority (Silver) to show that the general election polls don't matter.
I didn't make an appeal to authority. I quoted a guy who you mentioned.
 
Old May 11th 2016 | 9:39 am
  #7274  
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Default Re: 2016 Election

Originally Posted by RoadWarriorFromLP
I didn't make an appeal to authority. I quoted a guy who you mentioned.
A guy I said was wrong this time, even though he got it right in 2012. And yes you did. The aim of your post was to show that Silver thinks that general election polls don't matter at this point in the election.
 
Old May 11th 2016 | 9:43 am
  #7275  
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Default Re: 2016 Election

Originally Posted by zargof
The aim of your post was to show that Silver thinks that general election polls don't matter at this point in the election.
Well, he doesn't.
 


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