andyrich666

Yes of course it is not the same as in the UK, but that is a problem of the UK (IMO)

I did not say they were 'so good' but there are benefits if you look / ask for them, my point is its not as open as in the UK which is again a problem of the UK in its current state.

Even the people who know do not want to tell you about them.

chrisjolly

Have you been to North Devon??
Pleased you like both equally but we all have our reasons for being whereever we are and I still believe that life in rural england is dull. I have lived in many countries around the world and despite the fact that England has produced some of the best music and literature in the world I would never live there. You have obviously not met the true European but reflect the small island mentality. Sorry Dick!

HBG

Apart from housing benefit, Spain's benefit system is mostly more generous than the UK's, but the big difference is that it is for Spanish citizens and not for foreigners despite what EU laws may say.

Currently, the UK, Germany and France, the big countries in the EU have finally realised that they too can't comply with some daft EU rules on universal benefits for members, they can't afford to pay them, and immigration needs tighter control within the EU.

The UK are not the leaders of this movement, Germany already has a system in place whereby no benefits are paid to other EU nationals for the first six months, twice as long as the position Cameron is aiming for.

The clever and sensible move by the Conservative party to delay the referendum until 2017 will mean that by then the British public will know that they are not alone in curbing benefits and immigration and UKIP will cease to have much relevance, the same as the other national parties within the EU.

It would not surprise me if a major European treaty will be signed before 2017 to ensure the survival and strengthening of the EU and the daft bits from previous treaties will be removed.

cricketman

Sorry HBG, but this is probably the most wrong thing that I have ever seen written on this site, and that is saying something!

Maybe you should provide some evidence?

Benefits in Spain are for everyone who is resident here. But you only get unemployment benefit if you have previously worked legally in Spain, no matter what your nationality.

Unemployment benefit can be nearly 1,000 euros per month but you get it for a maximum of 2 years, then nothing. Most people get much less than this

There are no housing benefits and child benefits are minimal.

At the moment there is an emergency payment of 480 euros for those households who have nobody employed or on a pension, but normally these people would get nothing. A similar household in the UK with children would get around £2000 per month in benefits.

So how can benefits in Spain be more generous?

agoreira

And my point is given their circumstances, what they would get would amount to just about nada, and if you haven't contributed, tough! Then they would have to get health insurance etc which would more than negate any pennies they would get from Spain, so hence their return to UK. The "problem" with UK as you call it, it's great for those that are down on their luck (certainly some will abuse it), the problem is it wasn't intended to feed and house half of the EU's drop outs. I've always said if I were to be poor, I can't think of many other countries I would choose in preference to UK. In Spain there are obscene numbers of families with no income whatsoever, the whole family out of work.
http://www.tribunadeeuropa.com/?p=17462
Just reading of a Spanish bus driver, went to UK, no English, has just been awarded Best Bus Driver in UK. "If I went back to Spain I'd be unemployed like everyone else, best I stay here!"
http://ccaa.elpais.com/ccaa/2013/11/...58_484851.html

agoreira

Great thinking, you were the only interesting one in N Devon, I'd love to hear what they had to say about you. bet they were gutted when you left. Reminds me of Bil, he fell out with everyone in the village, they all hated him, wasn't his problem, the whole village was at fault.

HBG

I admit my knowledge is purely based on perhaps a dozen Spanish families who I know and who live nearby. They receive something like 460 Euros a month paro and have done so for well over two years, as well as other benefits I don't really understand.

I don't want to stray into things like black money, but the ones I know are not lazy people and are getting by without too much hardship, and there is also family help from close relatives. I thought child, other benefits and subsidised rents were quite good in Spain.

cricketman

You must be really good friends with them to know how much they are suffering or not

Whether people are in poverty or not is another matter, but benefits are not generous by any stretch of the imagination

Do you think 460 euros per month is a lot for a family to live on? Like I said, in the UK, a family would get around £2,000 per month in benefits and still complain that it isnt enough

chopera

I'm pretty sure you only get anything out of the Spanish social security system after you've paid something into it. So even if you can register as unemployed when you arrive, I doubt you'll get any money in return. You might be able to get national health cover, but that's about it. Once you have been paying into the system then it is another matter of course - unemployment benefit can be quite generous, and so can the state pension (for now at least)

andyrich666

Yes ive heard different stories, and thats why I said you can register (not saying claim) but once your in the system there is still benefits, such as finding an employer both the claimant and employer can benefit.

Regardless of all that I don't know the system, cricketman would prolly know best but still like UK not everyone knows what you can and cant claim.

agoreira

Somebody claiming benefits in Spain are better than UK, if that's the case and life is so cheap in Spain, why aren't all these young Spaniards staying in Spain on benefits instead leaving lemming like for any other country around the world. According to the article I quoted, 3 million people live in Spain with an income level below €307 a month, not what I would call a generous amount.

andyrich666

I never said that at all, all I said is there are benefits available and people are / can be entitled to them, I never said it was better or worse. You said that there was nothing available.

Your example was a couple who just gave up and returned

cricketman

Firstly, actually still a very low number of Spaniards are living abroad compared to other nationalities, Brits for example - 20% of Brits actually live outside the UK! Only 5% of Spaniards do, although this has increased recently

Secondly, the 307 euros a month is probably only declared income, which of course changes things a lot

But yes, the point is that there are millions of Spaniards, maybe even ten million who have very low income, probably half the amount the poorest people would be receiving in the UK

But they do live in a different environment. Many of the poorest people actually own their home in Spain as it has been passed down through the generations, they may have a small plot of land and family helps out a lot. So it may be possible to live comfortably on 450 euros in a village - but not in some godforsaken satellite town of Madrid/Barcelona

chopera

The other big difference in Spain is that families pool their income better than those in the UK. They're more likely to share the same roof, eat at the same table, and generally make a more efficient use of their resources.

cricketman

Yes. The biggest difference is if your grown up son, sister, auntie or even cousin lost their job and were in big trouble, most Spaniards would let them live in their house with them until their circumstances improved

Most Brits would be leaving it to the state to look after their extended family. British society is built around entitlement to the state. Spanish society is built on entitlement to your family

I've always said that British people love and trust their institutions more than their own flesh and blood