Will Problem Changing UK Licence For Spanish Be Resolved?
 

I'm a British citizen hoping to move to Spain next year on a Non Lucrative Visa. How likely is it that the problem of exchanging UK driving licences for a Spanish licences will be resolved? Are the respective governments actually trying to resolve the issue, and if yes, does anyone know approximate time to come up with a solution?

It seems strange that most EU countries will easily issue a licence in exchange for UK licence, but it's a big problem in Spain. I am reluctant to have to take tests in Spain, as I have both car and full motorbike licences in UK.

Any help and advice appreciated.

Re: Will Problem Changing UK Licence For Spanish Be Resolved?
 

No one knows. Nothing is certain in these times you just have to adapt and overcome. If I were to bet I’d say that at some point a deal will be done between the UK and Spain so that licences can be exchanged.

Re: Will Problem Changing UK Licence For Spanish Be Resolved?
 

There has been talk about changes being made and I believe France has introduced some changes but I wouldn't hold my breath as I imagine there will need to be various reciprocal arrangements made.

Re: Will Problem Changing UK Licence For Spanish Be Resolved?
 

Hola

It's funny, we had a long discussion on the future of Spain tonight while the others were watching the football. Our conclusion was that at some time Spain will allow people to remain here more than the 90 days currently allowed, and that the licence problem was solvable.

Remember though I live in a holiday home area where jobs are dependant on tourism

Davexf

Re: Will Problem Changing UK Licence For Spanish Be Resolved?
 

I generally lose bets on bad predictions but I would guess that as with all negotiations and diplomacy they will eventually reach an agreement, but only once they have pushed the illegals in to registering as residents to pay their dues. In the mean time for the unregistered the driving test will be necessary.
As for 90/180, I find this unlikely because of the tax implications. Maybe 120 or 150 in 365 could work, but not 180 in 365

Re: Will Problem Changing UK Licence For Spanish Be Resolved?
 

I think it is pointless to try and predict these things unless you have some way of knowing what is happening behind the scenes etc. AFAIK there is no immediate attempt to solve this and remember one of the issues is that all EU residents in UK need to do a UK test. They cannot exchange licences and I think that has been the case for a while so I cant see Spain agreeing to allow something to happen that disadvantages their own nationals. I think sometimes us Brits can only see the picture from our own side and dont think about the other.

Re: Will Problem Changing UK Licence For Spanish Be Resolved?
 

The OP asked for opinions on the likelihood. I would say it's likely at some point as you can still drive in the UK on an EU license, even as a UK resident, without exchanging it until you're 70, then it's a straight swap. You can drive in Great Britain on a full, valid driving licence from an EU country. - Exchange a foreign driving licence - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)

Re: Will Problem Changing UK Licence For Spanish Be Resolved?
 

That link is based upon being a UK resident from the EU, if you change that to non UK resident with EU licence it says you cant change your licence but can drive on your eu licence for 12 months. The original post asked the question being non Spanish resident? As Chipmonk says I can't see Spain changing the law in Spain until the UK agrees to do the same for Spanish citizens.

Re: Will Problem Changing UK Licence For Spanish Be Resolved?
 

On what basis did you conclude that?

UK voluntarily left the EU so why would the EU make any exceptions for them.

Please have something better than 'Spain needs the money'!

Congrats on not watching boring football :thumbsup:

Re: Will Problem Changing UK Licence For Spanish Be Resolved?
 

Yes, I got that. Pretty sure the OP was referring to exchanging the license when he gains residency under a non lucrative visa.
I understood Chipmonks comment to mean that he remembered one of the issues is that all EU residents in UK need to do a UK test to mean that he understood that all EU residents in UK need to do a UK test which is not the case. The link I posted was to show that the UK allow it the other way around so it's not disadvantaging Spanish nationals, or more accurately, Spanish residents with a Spanish license.
You can't get a UK license if you're not a resident and I'm fairly certain you can't get a Spanish license as a non resident.

Re: Will Problem Changing UK Licence For Spanish Be Resolved?
 

Whilst it is true that UK left EU it is the case that EU nationals can be in UK 180 days so there could be room for a reciprocal agreement but I think that they must have considered all this during the WA hence the reason they say 90 days ( as it applies to all 3rd countries) . So all in all I cant imagine them ever changing this rule as it seems so pivotal.

I would say this : if you want to live in Spain you either do so without a car or you start learning Spanish ( at least to a A1 level- which is easy) then concentrate on vocab relevant to driving et and then start doing the test. If you cant do that then become a non- resident and visit twice a year for 3 months at a time, which to be honest, after a few years is all most people need.

Re: Will Problem Changing UK Licence For Spanish Be Resolved?
 

Why would a EU resident be doing a UK test? Surely you mean an EU national resident in UK ?

Re: Will Problem Changing UK Licence For Spanish Be Resolved?
 

Just looked at the conditions for EU nats resident in UK. They can use their EU licence for three years then they need to do test or when 70 it expires and test is needed. So if it is made reciprocal you would have 3 years to start preparing for Spanish test. This is fine for people who retire at 67. Get learning Spanish I say. It is the language of the country you want to live in after all.

Re: Will Problem Changing UK Licence For Spanish Be Resolved?
 

Having looked at the link again and gone through it as if an eu citizen it doesn't seem to have a time limit of requiring residency pre brexit date as it does to exchange from UK to spanish licence. In fact its quite vague really. So yes it would seem so long as one becomes UK resident they will still be able to exchange their licence in the UK.

Re: Will Problem Changing UK Licence For Spanish Be Resolved?
 

Yes, I assumed you meant the same as it was your quote....

Regarding the 3 years, no that's not the case. An EU national resident in the UK does not need to change their EU license to a UK license until they are 70, but if you're over 67 when you become resdient you get 3 years. So if you're 69 you have to change it 3 years later.

Re: Will Problem Changing UK Licence For Spanish Be Resolved?
 

Well I guess either way you will need to do a UK test after 3 years tesidency so if reciprocal ( which only seems fair) UK nats in Spain would need to eventually do a test
Remember though all immigrants in UK need to have English as a residency requirement so for them a UK test is not so hard.

Re: Will Problem Changing UK Licence For Spanish Be Resolved?
 

The link provided shows that the 3 year limit applies to those 67 or over so if say one became resident at age 69 they would have until age 72 to exchange. Those under 67 can continue to drive on an EU licence up to age 70 when they must exchange their licence. That is very different to rules here in Spain and it would seem from the info on licences that brexit has not changed the driving licence exchange rules for EU citizens resident in the UK. From that I would think there is a good chance of reciprocal arrangements being made at some point in the future.

Re: Will Problem Changing UK Licence For Spanish Be Resolved?
 

I agree that is how it reads.

Re: Will Problem Changing UK Licence For Spanish Be Resolved?
 

Notdunroamin, I agree with you (apart from the bit about the football because I wanted Spain to win the tournament!) that Spain don't have to do anything. UK nationals are going to need ETIAS visa waivers soon which will make changes to the 90/180 more complicated and far less likely.

The UK voted for Brexit and the 90/180 day rule is a direct consequence of that so you are just going to have to live with it (and all the other inconveniences) and stop expecting everyone else to change their rules to suit you.

If you want a level playing field, lobby your government to change their rules to 90/180, it would be easier.

Re: Will Problem Changing UK Licence For Spanish Be Resolved?
 

Forget UK's 180 days, in context it's irrelevant.

90 days is a Schengen rule, to change it will require the unanimous agreement of all members and there is no logical basis for thinking that they would do that.

Re: Will Problem Changing UK Licence For Spanish Be Resolved?
 

Yes, this is the way I see it and I don't doubt that it is being worked on, as per the UK government statement on the matter.

I gather part of the delay with France was down to the French needing to enact some legislation, which may well also be the case with Spain. In Portugal (and, I assume, the other 23 member states where UK licence exchanges are already possible) that legislation was enacted well prior to the end of the transition period.

It would be easy enough to put pressure on the Spanish if it looked as though they were not going to progress this, by threatening not to recognise Spanish licences or to allow for their exchange. Obviously that has downsides for both parties and it makes far more sense to have an agreement in place.

Re: Will Problem Changing UK Licence For Spanish Be Resolved?
 

'You can drive in Great Britain until you’re 70. If you’re 67 or over when you become resident, you can drive for 3 years. After this time you must exchange your licence. You do not have to retake your test.' You can drive in Great Britain on a full, valid driving licence from an EU country. - Exchange a foreign driving licence - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)

So if you are an EU national now living in UK, you can drive on your EU licence till you are 70, then you need to exchange for UK one, but you don't need to pass a test. Different rule applies if you've exchanged your non-EU licence in order to obtain a licence from an EU country (under reciprocal agreement, like your Argentinian licence for a Spanish one). Then you can't just simply exchange for UK one but have to pass driving tests.

Re: Will Problem Changing UK Licence For Spanish Be Resolved?
 

I doubt it will change anytime soon.
Spain exchanges licences with mainly other Spanish speaking countries (and why not, its easier for them to understand the language, rules of the road and what the nice policeman with the gun is saying to them) :)
The UK exchanges with countries on the whole whose language is .... wait for it Predominantly English (like Canada, Australia, NZ, most of the Caribbean)
Neither exchanges with the US. (don't ask me why)

Driving licence change to Uk is as set out below.
https://www.gov.uk/exchange-foreign-...european-union
So the Uk has already given EU drivers a better deal, the EU are the ones in the driving seat (sorry) when it come to reciprocating.
Cant see that happening with he level of angst the EU has at the moment.
In fact the EU are the only group of countries given this, all others (apart from those on the list) MUST take a Uk test after a year.

The Uk allows EU (and in fact all foreign citizens 180/365) visitors as it always has, not a new rule for EU citizens due to Brexit.
The chance of the EU (or spain) doing the same would allow every other 3rd country to cry foul.
Again the EU will be the ones who have to give, and Im sorry there are probably many other things more important to deal with from the WA than these two for a few lucky second home owners or those who couldnt be bothered to exchange before the end of last year.

This is going to sound harsh but, its been over five years now. Some of this was very clear to some people from day one.

Re: Will Problem Changing UK Licence For Spanish Be Resolved?
 

I tend to agree. If Spain agrees to everything expats want in order to live in Spain it hardly feels fair on other 3rd countries. And please dont say but Brits keep the Spanish economy going and therefore Spain mustn't bite the hand that feeds- other people buy homes in Spain ( Scandanavians, Russians, Americans). At the moment the rule is you have to do a Spanish test - so if you are coming soon take that into consideration. If/ when it changes then so be it.

Re: Will Problem Changing UK Licence For Spanish Be Resolved?
 

This is why UK will exchange Spanish licences - and the reason Spain won't because they haven't ratified the convention.

Re: Will Problem Changing UK Licence For Spanish Be Resolved?
 

Can't see why that would present a barrier to an agreement on exchanging of licences as they're signatories to that Convention, along with the Geneva Convention of 1949, which the UK has also signed.

Re: Will Problem Changing UK Licence For Spanish Be Resolved?
 

The Uk only signed this just in case there was a no deal scenario. This would have meant NONE of our Uk licences would have been valid from 1st Jan 2021

The issue about exchanges has arisen because now the Uk is out of the EU. The EU no longer have access to the DVLA database to 'prove' you have a current and valid licence. I know this could easily be sorted, but again its ONLY in the UK's interest.
The system in France is quite an unusual one as you could not exchange your licence unless you had to have points or a fine attached. Then they changed it over (head over to the French forum if you need proof).

As mentioned above in another post UK second home buyers don't account for a huge percentage of the total. There are quite a few US, Australians here and I know a couple from South Africa, ALL of them had to take a test and you don't see them bleating on about 'rights' and it not being fair.

Base covering thats all, a clever government department just covered the 'basic' needs and they never intended to go any further.. *Dont hold your breathe if you think a deal on this happening soon* Although great if it does.
Which now puts Uk drivers in the same boat as any other 3rd country citizen (like the US etc) who would need an IDP as a tourist.

I think this was also done to cover those drivers who still retained the paper licence as the IDP has to have your photograph and is then a form of ID (like all EU wide licences must now have). I think the Uk is only one of a very few countries that still have paper licences.

The 1949 an 1968 convention just states that a UK issued IDP will be recognised.
The bold is lifted directly from the document.
Being party to this Convention ensures that in the event that the UK leaves the EU, without either an EU wide deal, or a comprehensive set of bilateral agreements on driver licensing, holders of UK driving licences can ensure recognition if they hold the relevant International Driving Permit.

And this for the 1968 convention.

The specific element of contingency planning is the ability to ensure that UK licence holders will be able to obtain an International Driving Permit to guarantee recognition of their licence when driving in the EU and EEA after exit day. If the UK had not ratified the 1968 Vienna Convention, then in the absence of a “deal” the UK would have not had the ability to issue documents to guarantee UK licences in all member states

If you want an EU licence maybe you should consider moving to one of these. (I got this off a website)
According to expert opinion, there are many countries across the European Union where passing your test is not difficult, including Greece, Moldova and Belarus.

Re: Will Problem Changing UK Licence For Spanish Be Resolved?
 

Not true.

There was no obligation to exchange a licence during it's period of validity but if you committed an offence which carried a loss of points then the French could make you exchange your licence to deduct them, typically for one point offences they didn't bother but for more serious offences they frequently did. It would come in the firm of a knock on your door by a Gendarme, sometimes many months after the offence in question had been committed and the fine paid.

Up until July 2019 it was possible to exchange on demand but from that date they refused to accept applications (now 100% online via the ANT's system) which is what's caught a lot of the last minute chancers out.

The vast majority had plenty of time to exchange their licences before that if they has wished however some valued the virtual impunity a UK licence gave them more.

Re: Will Problem Changing UK Licence For Spanish Be Resolved?
 

This is irrelevant as far as people moving post end of transition period is concerned.

I'm still puzzled about the general level of scepticism and the reasons given. I'm sure the UK government long ago said it would be aiming for mutual recognition of driving licences and it's clear it has acted on that and got assurances from all member states (with the possible exception of Italy, although I gather that negotiations are also ongoing there), that even where agreement hasn't yet been reached, it will be.

Here is Baroness Vere, Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport, on the subject :
Driving Licences : Reciprocal Arrangements : Question for Department for Transport UIN HL13926, tabled on 4 March 2021

... and again, in May :
Driving Licences: Spain : Question for Department for Transport UIN HL227, tabled on 13 May 2021
.
..and here is a statement from the Spanish government, issued at the time of the announcement of the extension of validity of UK licences :
Spain extends certain Brexit adaptation measures to 31 October

So both governments clearly stating that they have mutual recognition in their sights and that talks are in progress, in addition to the done deals between the UK and the overwhelming majority of other EU member states, showing that the UK is acting on its original pronouncements and strongly implying that it is not of unilateral benefit.

Plus a pledge to have the whole thing wrapped up by year end.

Re: Will Problem Changing UK Licence For Spanish Be Resolved?
 

I will continue to drive on my UK licence just as I have always done in Spain. Never had a problem. Also I still haven’t heard of anyone having a problem with the 90 day visa. I look in the news everyday and can’t see a thing. Can’t see Ibiza or Mallorca or Tenerife sticking by that rule when holiday reps and seasonal workers need more than 90 days to keep the island running.

Re: Will Problem Changing UK Licence For Spanish Be Resolved?
 

....and of course, if anyone were daft enough to act on this "advice" and fall foul of the authorities, they could always say Stingychips on British Expats said it was fine, and that would set everything right.

Re: Will Problem Changing UK Licence For Spanish Be Resolved?
 

it’s not advice.I’m not an official resident so I can still drive on my British licence.😄

Re: Will Problem Changing UK Licence For Spanish Be Resolved?
 

You may not be resident but have you managed to abide by the 90 day rule?

Re: Will Problem Changing UK Licence For Spanish Be Resolved?
 

Yes. Up to now 90 days is more than enough.

Re: Will Problem Changing UK Licence For Spanish Be Resolved?
 

It seems you are way out of touch, do not keep up with the new requirements for brits or just stuck in the same ole.

Not just the islands, but other places are starting to look elsewhere in the 300+ million strong block for their seasonal workers.
-french-ski-businesses-no-longer-willing-to-hire-brits

Re: Will Problem Changing UK Licence For Spanish Be Resolved?
 

Probably. However ibiza is pretty much geared up for British seasonal workers which then cater for the mass influx of British tourists. Maybe another country will take Spain’s place as number 1 Holiday destination. Who knows. I’m just sat on the fences waiting to see what unfolds these next few months with brexit politics and the economic devastation covid has caused.

Re: Will Problem Changing UK Licence For Spanish Be Resolved?
 

I was thinking more of the other comment - about overstaying / working without the correct permissions, which you seem to think would go unpunished.

I certainly wouldn't advise putting that to the test.

Re: Will Problem Changing UK Licence For Spanish Be Resolved?
 

Yep, we are creeping into cloud cuckoo land territory with this Brexit type trope.

Re: Will Problem Changing UK Licence For Spanish Be Resolved?
 

Speaking English is not really a problem for seasonal workers from 31 countries and I'm not quite sure that the whole of Ibiza is going to obligingly up sticks and move somewhere else for Brits... and where would it move to? Gibraltar? :eek:

Re: Will Problem Changing UK Licence For Spanish Be Resolved?
 

I would have thought that all those who had abandoned the Uk, would flock to the islands and mainland Spain as most had a reasonable level of English.
Round here (Albir) most of the restaurants are staffed by Dutch or Scandinavians and all the Spanish workers speak some English (I had a small conversation with a lad from Madrid who speaks six languages the other day)

The issue with seasonal workers is the same all over. They are usually exploited and paid low wages. Don't matter where they come from.