Originally Posted by OTA63

None of that is to say that the "vast majority" did not WANT to move in search of a better life whether it be from one EU country to another or from one US state to another.
There are a million and reasons why they may not have taken the plunge be it the uncertainty, separation from their families or anything else. The Freedom of Movement act just made it easier for those who were willing to take the plunge.

Originally Posted by OTA63

None of that is to say that the "vast majority" did not WANT to move in search of a better life whether it be from one EU country to another or from one US state to another. ....

Originally Posted by Pulaski

That also supports my point ..... they could have moved, but for whatever reason, they didn't. For the vast majority of people the right to move to another country is nothing more than a theoretical nicity.

In Europe I believe that the primary reason, and certainly a key factor for me, is a lack of fluency in foreign languages, and no confidence that I could ever achieve fluency.

Originally Posted by Moses2013

I'm sure you have home insurance, health insurance etc.. Even if you didn't need it yet, you still would moan if it wasn't available to you. So it's pretty good to have right?

Originally Posted by OTA63

Sorry Pulaski, I think you are wrong. The FOM Act was and is important to many of the "vast majority". The fact that it exists means they were free to consider moving around. The fact that they did not move because of their individual circumstances does not that the FOM was unimportant to them. The existence of the FOM gave them the choice.

Originally Posted by OTA63

Sorry Pulaski, I think you are wrong. The FOM Act was and is important to many of the "vast majority". The fact that it exists means they were free to consider moving around. The fact that they did not move because of their individual circumstances does not that the FOM was unimportant to them. The existence of the FOM gave them the choice.

Originally Posted by Pulaski

Yet AGAIN you have conflated "freedom of movement" with other matters that are unrelated. The EU chose to include "freedom of movement" with other trade-related freedoms, but there was no requirement to do so, and there is no reason, other than pure political bloody-mindedness, that freedom of movement couldn't be restricted or even eliminated without impacting the free trade aspects of the single market. "Friction free trade" has NOTHING to do with "freedom of movement" for individual, other than that the EU chose to combine them both in the same treaty, and the benefits that the "vast majority" are benefiting from are the derived from the benefits of free trade, not from freedom of movement.

So, back to the matter that you deliberately or ignorantly misrepresented, freedom of movement - this has very little benefit to the large, very large majority of EU citizens who have no interest in uprooting their lives and traveling hundreds of miles to a country with a different culture and a language that they have limited, or no, grasp of.

Certainly I, for one, had absolutely ZERO interest in moving to ANY country in Europe, and would happily vote against participation in any deal that gives unrestricted rights to live in the UK to any non-English speaking aliens with a different, sometimes radically so, culture.

Of course the grand plan of Germany had been that freedom of movement would allow German companies to suck in huge numbers of Greeks, Italians, and Spaniards when their economies tanked, as they inevitably would under the burdens imposed by the euro. However people from those countries appear to have very little interest in transplanting themselves to Germany even when their own country is in the toilet. So even when circumstances strongly suggest that people should take advantage of freedom of movement, very large numbers of people resist taking up their freedom of movement rights.

You obviously have your agenda, that you promote tirelessly, but I wish you would stop making up çräp to support your opinion.

Originally Posted by amideislas

You live in the USA. The very icon of freedom of movement. Imagine if you had border controls and customs at every state border. If someone from Virginia had to get a green card to work in Texas. The country would become the world's 30th largest economy in about two weeks. Or just cease to exist as any formidable politico-economic entity.

Originally Posted by Pulaski

But we all speak a common language here, more or less, and the last time I checked that wasn't true in the EU.

Maybe if the EU was serious about Freedom of Movement they should mandate a common language be taught, immersion-style, at school. Then, after about 50 years, the EU could have true freedom of movement!

Originally Posted by Annetje

I think you put a bit too much emphasis on language !
And anyway, my British husband learned spoken Dutch in 2 weeks (intensive course with the nuns ) ....

Originally Posted by Pulaski

But we all speak a common language here, more or less, and the last time I checked that wasn't true in the EU.

Maybe if the EU was serious about Freedom of Movement they should mandate a common language be taught, immersion-style, at school. Then, after about 50 years, the EU could have true freedom of movement!

Originally Posted by Pulaski

But we all speak a common language here, more or less, and the last time I checked that wasn't true in the EU.

Maybe if the EU was serious about Freedom of Movement they should mandate a common language be taught, immersion-style, at school. Then, after about 50 years, the EU could have true freedom of movement!

Originally Posted by Pulaski

And that, in a nutshell us the problem, from a British perspective - in practical terms, people all across Europe are prepped to relocate to the UK, and so many do.

But how on earth could I expect to find a job in Germany or Italy if I don't, and likely can't speak the language? .... People are frequently told on BE that you can't move to [insert name of any European country other than Ireland, Malta, and maybe Cyprus] and have much hope of finding work unless you speak the local language, even the Netherlands where English is very widely spoken, and usually to a better (more grammatical) standard than many people in the UK!

Originally Posted by amideislas

.... But what you're dimissing is that most Europeans speak at least two languages fluently. ....

Originally Posted by Pulaski

Whoopie-doo for your husband! I have absolutely no confidence that I could grasp even a basic understanding of a foreign language even if my life depended on it. I tried two different languages at high school and found one difficult, and the other worse! My high school French teacher told my mother that me getting a bare-minimum passing grade in French at age 16 (GCSE), was a "bloody miracle".

And that, in a nutshell us the problem, from a British perspective - in practical terms, people all across Europe are prepped to relocate to the UK, and so many do.

But how on earth could I expect to find a job in Germany or Italy if I don't, and likely can't speak the language? .... People are frequently told on BE that you can't move to [insert name of any European country other than Ireland, Malta, and maybe Cyprus] and have much hope of finding work unless you speak the local language, even for the Netherlands where English is very widely spoken, and usually to a better (more grammatical) standard than many people in the UK!

I used to work for a Dutch company, but the idea of moving to the head office was just pie in the sky, even though all the Dutch colleagues I ever met spoke excellent English, I would have been required to interview in Dutch to get a job there.