What a Dilema
 

What a dilema...

A couple of years ago a relative of my wifes borrowed money from another relative. One lived in Spain and the other in the UK.
The one in the UK needed to borrow 2k pounds, the money was sent from Spain directly into her bank account. (nearly 3 thousand euros)

Now the borrower wants to pay the money back and has given 2k back, as it was the original amount borrowed.

It has been changed back into euros, and of course the amount is short.

This has caused no end of problems within the extended family, we are trying to stay out of the row.

It is a dilema though, I know what I think (that the lender should not lose out money wise through doing a favour) but I am just interested to know if anyone has heard of a similar case, due to the low exchange rate and what the outcome was.
Our lot are just going round in circles.

Re: What a Dilema
 

Who changed the 2000 pounds into euros? And why?

Re: What a Dilema
 

The 2000 pounds was sent back to Spain by the person who borrowed the money to pay back the loan of 2000 pounds.......

Re: What a Dilema
 

Surely the person should return the amount they borrowed which was 3000€`s

Re: What a Dilema
 

Exactly :thumbsup:

Re: What a Dilema
 

Morally, we all know how it should work. Legally, there isn't a leg to stand on. You can always guarantee money will cause family issues

Re: What a Dilema
 

I bet they would of settled for paying 3000€`s if the exchange rate had swung the other way. :D

Re: What a Dilema
 

bet yer life on it

Re: What a Dilema
 

Thats an odd one.

My position would be if the person wanted to borrow £2,000 and received £2,000, then they repay £2,000.

It wasn`t there fault the Euro was high and since dropped.

It should have been disscussed before.

One option though would have been to pay the money back but into a savings account and wait for the exchange rate to return.:rolleyes:

Re: What a Dilema
 

It seems unfair to me that the person who did the favour ends up out of pocket, and the problem about waiting for the rate to go up is that the money is needed now.

Re: What a Dilema
 

I've been thinking about this. The borrower didn't borrow 3000 euros; she borrowed £2,000.

Re: What a Dilema
 

And I've thought about it again, and I'd be pissed off whatever side of the fence I was on! :lol:

Re: What a Dilema
 

£2000 was borrowed, £2000 paid back...

Re: What a Dilema
 

Me too, it is one of thoses things, good intentions turning out bad, neither person is in the wrong but..........circumstance have dealt them both a bad deal.
We are lucky that we are not in the thick of it, as the whole family is at war over this, and both sides have a point.
:(:(

Re: What a Dilema
 

This is where the problem is.....the borrower "apparently· asked for "enough euros to make 2k, which was over 2800euros, so as far as the borrower is concened that is what should be paid back.

Re: What a Dilema
 

Aahh. That makes it different then, doesn't it? But then there is the burden of proof on who said what. Ultimately, it spells a massive family fall out

Re: What a Dilema
 

That is an understatment..............the borrower knew that the euros was going to be changed into pounds during the transfer, so the lender actually sent 2800euros, even though only 2 thousand pounds arrived.
My take is that the lender should end up with the 2800 the originaly sent.

Re: What a Dilema
 

But they asked for £2000 in the first place right?

Re: What a Dilema
 

The words we have been told were "to send enought euros to make 2000 quid. On the transfer slip is stated the original amount in euros, and I have just been told that this was to be a short term loan, and the money should have been paid back 2 years ago.
If the money had been paid back when is should have been, there would be no problem

Re: What a Dilema
 

The borrower should repay what the lender is out of pocket, which should include some form of intrest payment.

Re: What a Dilema
 

Interest? Between family?

Re: What a Dilema
 

I don't think it's about the "he said" "she said" scenario. I think it's about resolving it in whatever way is morally right. And I wouldn't want to be the judge of that one.....:unsure:

I'd still be pissed off whatever side of the fence I was on . If I borrowed 2k, that's what I'd want to pay back. On the other hand.....if I'd lent 3,000 euros, that's what I'd expect back. Did anybody mention or take into account currency fluctuations at the time?

Re: What a Dilema
 

I dont think so, the lender has never been out of Spain, and lives in a region where exchange rates would never be discussed (rural Galicia)
the only one aware of the possibility would have been the lender, who is Spanish but lives in the UK...

Re: What a Dilema
 

I'm trying to see if there is somewhere the borrower would benefit from such a low exchange rate, and has thus specifically waited until now to pay back. Perhaps they transferred the money to a Spanish bank account a while back, when rates were good, planning to repay in euros, but only to the value of 2k.
I smell a rat somewhere :thumbdown:

Re: What a Dilema
 

Good theory Holmes, but if I mentioned it to anyone, I would be singing soprano for the rest of my natural.
You know how it is with family disputes, you are damned if you do and damned if you dont.

Re: What a Dilema
 

The more I think about it, I'd be decidedly suspicious of the borrower. Mind you, I guess yer balls are precious! ;)

Re: What a Dilema
 

personally I reckon the lender should get back what they lent



I can see why the borrower doesn't want to pay back more than they borrowed


so in the interest of family harmony can't they just split the difference between the 2000 quid & 2800 euros & agree on 2400 quid/euros?

Re: What a Dilema
 

A similar thing happened to me when I lent a sum of money to my son who lives in Australia. When he eventually offered to pay me back, in Australian Dollars, it didn’t come anywhere near the sum I’d lent him.

I didn’t say anything and kept my thoughts to myself. On reflection, I was just pleased to get anything back.

But to answer the OP, did I expect (hope) to be repaid in full? I’m afraid the answer is Yes.

Re: What a Dilema
 

Still keep thinking about this one, and have asked several people for an opinion just out of interest, and guess what? 50/50. Has it been resolved yet?

Re: What a Dilema
 

Whatever happens there is no way to please everyone in this situation, so I'd go for damage limitation.

I think Lynxxa made the best suggestion - split the difference and repay 2400 euros.

Re: What a Dilema
 

No it has not been resolved, and I feel this will be like the Israelis and Palestine, no solution.
The suggestion of the 50-50 split on the losses suggested on this forum, sounds good to me, but when my wife tried to put that forward, she was shot down.
I thought she was a brave woman to even try, I was hiding in the bathroom at the time, and she was only on the phone

She took such a verbal bashing, then we tried with the "we are such a big family, if we all chipped in 20euros each, then all will be OK, and 20 euros is a small price to pay for peace" approach, still no deal

In desperation, I even put my own suggestion in, which is that the 2 cousins (females) mud wrestle in the nearest availabe field, and the loser stands the loss.

So now I also in the dog house with the wife, who told me to shut the f**k up.


I know lots of you on here think that the Spanish are family orientated, they are, but when the S**t hits the fan, it is magnified ten fold.

So ladies, mainly Lynnxa and Veleta, I know it makes sense to you (and me) but I am keeping my mouth firmly shut, after all they are inlaws.

I am totally peed off with all the phonecalls, all the agro, and the whole tribe of them.

I am thinking of taking a job as a lighthouse keeper, somewhere in the outer Hebridies or Fraggle Rock. Who would I need to contact about that job?

Cheers and goodnight:):)

Re: What a Dilema
 

Ultimately that may be the way out.

(but my very £$€ savvy OH said if it was borrowed in € it should be repaid in €, £ then £. Never mind how the sum was asked for, nor the complexities of exchange rates, what they wanted it for, etc., if they borrowed 2800€ they should repay 2800€. If they received £2000 in the bank account, then repay £2000. I thought the post said they received €2800. No ifs or buts. A bank would expect you to repay what you'd received.)

But Lynn's still probably nearest the mark in terms of what'll keep the family peace.

Re: What a Dilema
 

I`d suggest getting out of any involvement and let them get on with it.

After all they should have considered the possibilities when the media was informing us of the recession.

Its not as if the exchange rate dropped over night.

As they didn`t consider the mess there in before it happened, I doubt there goin to advance away from conflict.

The lender should have handed over £`s, that way they`d have to recieve back £`s.

Again the lender should be aware the borrower asked for £3,000 and recieved £3,000 so the borrower pays back £3,000, the exchange rate then isn`t an issue, unless the lender requires the exchange and since they do, its there responsibility as there the ones dealing in Euros, not the borrower.

The lender was an idiot, sorry but they should have realised exchange rates change.:rolleyes:

If this was a company, there would have been (Should) an agreement before the transaction, if no agreement then someone will lose money, simple as that.

Re: What a Dilema
 

I think you have got it wrong there, the lender must have been desperate to ask a woman that had never left Spain and has no reason to follow the exchange rate to lend her the money.
Dont forget the both women involved are Spanish, on lives in the UK and has family there.
Obviouse her family in England could not or would not help, so she asked this other lady for help.
Do you mean to say that a woman who lives in rural Galicia, who has never even been on a computer to have thought of the exchange rate.
The media in Galicia dont give a stuff about the pound, they report the things relevant to their region of Spain, not what is of interest to expats
Do pensioners in any country who have no intention of travelling, follow the money markets, NO NO.

She handed over 2800 euros to be made into pounds, because that was the amount she was told to be made into 2k pounds.
She did not lend 2k she gave 2800 and it was changed int pounds so that it could be sent to the UK.
As far is she (and Me) is concerned that is what she should receive back.
I am not getting involved but it is very difficult for my wife, as she is close to all concerned.

Re: What a Dilema
 

If you play poker and loose you cannot claim afterwards not to no the rules.

I`m guessing this is 2 daughters and a mother involved.:(

If it is, that puts a moral angle on it.

So yes a compromise should be made, but somebody has too take a loss.

If it is a daughter, the mother could threaten to remove the outstanding amount from any inheritance she was due and pass it onto a third party.

If it is family further removed the only solution would be a legal one.

But I fear the lender would still loose, as law tends not to sympathise with ignorance/neglect.

Re: What a Dilema
 

It is not a mother and daughter, they are cousins to be exact, and as the lender has pointed out to my wife, and I think that she is totally right.

If you borrow a clean coat, it should be returned in the same condition,2800e was borrowed.
If the lender dirties the coat and has to have it cleaned before handing it back, then the borrower should pay the cost of the cleaning
The lender then gets back the coat in exactly the same condition as they lent it.
The lender should get the money back in exactly the same conditions as they gave, ie euros and 2800 of them, any expense incurred in returning the money in its original state should be borne by the borrower.

I have since found out the orignal 2800 euros was put in the borrowers account here in Spain, by the borrowers own daughter, the sent by them to the UK.

So I think they are behaving very badly over this matter.

There will be no legal action about this, it has gone far beyond the money, whatever the outcome of who is the winner or loser, the damage done within the family cannot be repaired, or lessened.

:(:(

Re: What a Dilema
 

That's straight, then. They didn't borrow £2000 they borrowed €2800 & should repay €2800 .. but you know that. They probably know that too, but don't like the consequences of their actions. What a sad story for your wife (the others too, but one step removed she/you are in an invidious position - if you venture an opinion you put yourselves in the firing line too, and that's not a brilliant idea. Best of luck.

Re: What a Dilema
 

Can we come and stay with you till it all blows over?????

Re: What a Dilema
 

Might need to be a while...... can I charge you a token rent in €? £? Yen? :sneaky::lol:

Re: What a Dilema
 

Name your price, we have no nut allergies, we are not vegans, or follow a micro biotic diet.
I wont hog the shower, and I dont have any disgusting habits, I cant say the same for the wife though.........................:rofl:

And lets stick to euros, we dont want to fall out over the exchange rate do we?