well digging
Apr 25th 2009, 9:35 am
#1
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well digging
Anyone know anything about well digging in sandy soil?
I'd like to put in a second one, but lack funds for a pro to come and do it. The one we have is about 10 metres deep or poss a bit more, and we have water at 6. The tube casing is plastic pipe, 6 inches or so diam. I'd be interested in how they get that much down without too much force, as that would surely crack it.
Looking at sites on the web, one means would be to use water spray to loosen the sand then remove the slurry with a home made low tech pump, or try a waste pump that can handle solids.
As sand slurry is pretty dense, I might try turning a 4" pump int a helical cutter, a bit like an Archimedian screw, and lift that out every so often.
Another idea was to get some cement tubes, with a higher diam than wanted, excavate a hole as deep as was safe/practical, - I am well aware of the dangers of confined spaces, inc. wall collapse, and then stack them to make an oversize well casing. I could then use a mix of home made auger and water wash to undermine the tube so that it moved downward.
Continue that till the outer casing won't go down any further, and then that gives you a 'wide' bore pipe to work thru that will keep the top section stabilised.
Anyway, if anyone has any input, I'd be delighted.
I'd like to put in a second one, but lack funds for a pro to come and do it. The one we have is about 10 metres deep or poss a bit more, and we have water at 6. The tube casing is plastic pipe, 6 inches or so diam. I'd be interested in how they get that much down without too much force, as that would surely crack it.
Looking at sites on the web, one means would be to use water spray to loosen the sand then remove the slurry with a home made low tech pump, or try a waste pump that can handle solids.
As sand slurry is pretty dense, I might try turning a 4" pump int a helical cutter, a bit like an Archimedian screw, and lift that out every so often.
Another idea was to get some cement tubes, with a higher diam than wanted, excavate a hole as deep as was safe/practical, - I am well aware of the dangers of confined spaces, inc. wall collapse, and then stack them to make an oversize well casing. I could then use a mix of home made auger and water wash to undermine the tube so that it moved downward.
Continue that till the outer casing won't go down any further, and then that gives you a 'wide' bore pipe to work thru that will keep the top section stabilised.
Anyway, if anyone has any input, I'd be delighted.
Apr 25th 2009, 12:24 pm
#2
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Location: Benalmadena Pueblo,Spain
Posts: 20,156
Re: well digging
Anyone know anything about well digging in sandy soil?
I'd like to put in a second one, but lack funds for a pro to come and do it. The one we have is about 10 metres deep or poss a bit more, and we have water at 6. The tube casing is plastic pipe, 6 inches or so diam. I'd be interested in how they get that much down without too much force, as that would surely crack it.
Looking at sites on the web, one means would be to use water spray to loosen the sand then remove the slurry with a home made low tech pump, or try a waste pump that can handle solids.
As sand slurry is pretty dense, I might try turning a 4" pump int a helical cutter, a bit like an Archimedian screw, and lift that out every so often.
Another idea was to get some cement tubes, with a higher diam than wanted, excavate a hole as deep as was safe/practical, - I am well aware of the dangers of confined spaces, inc. wall collapse, and then stack them to make an oversize well casing. I could then use a mix of home made auger and water wash to undermine the tube so that it moved downward.
Continue that till the outer casing won't go down any further, and then that gives you a 'wide' bore pipe to work thru that will keep the top section stabilised.
Anyway, if anyone has any input, I'd be delighted.
I'd like to put in a second one, but lack funds for a pro to come and do it. The one we have is about 10 metres deep or poss a bit more, and we have water at 6. The tube casing is plastic pipe, 6 inches or so diam. I'd be interested in how they get that much down without too much force, as that would surely crack it.
Looking at sites on the web, one means would be to use water spray to loosen the sand then remove the slurry with a home made low tech pump, or try a waste pump that can handle solids.
As sand slurry is pretty dense, I might try turning a 4" pump int a helical cutter, a bit like an Archimedian screw, and lift that out every so often.
Another idea was to get some cement tubes, with a higher diam than wanted, excavate a hole as deep as was safe/practical, - I am well aware of the dangers of confined spaces, inc. wall collapse, and then stack them to make an oversize well casing. I could then use a mix of home made auger and water wash to undermine the tube so that it moved downward.
Continue that till the outer casing won't go down any further, and then that gives you a 'wide' bore pipe to work thru that will keep the top section stabilised.
Anyway, if anyone has any input, I'd be delighted.
Apr 25th 2009, 12:28 pm
#3
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Re: well digging
God knows. You have to have permission to do a lot of things, but the Spanish mostly do as they please.
Apr 25th 2009, 12:42 pm
#4
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Re: well digging
There is a large fine for digging or using an unregistered well.
Apr 25th 2009, 12:46 pm
#5
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Re: well digging
Across the whole of Spain?
Apr 25th 2009, 2:53 pm
#6
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Re: well digging
o Yes .......
but again the spanish do as thay wish ....
but again the spanish do as thay wish ....
Apr 25th 2009, 3:30 pm
#7
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Re: well digging
Is it a license, or a permit? Do you need qualifications, or what?
Apr 25th 2009, 4:56 pm
#9
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Re: well digging
Hmmm. I'd have problems getting a vehicle that size where I wanted it, but if that boom stretched a bit and the neighbours were willing to have him on their land....
In the UK I saw one firm that did it off a landrover.
I shall have to think about this some more.
In the UK I saw one firm that did it off a landrover.
I shall have to think about this some more.
Apr 25th 2009, 4:57 pm
#10
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Re: well digging
Presumably a Gabinate Técnico Minero (licensed well digger) would do all of the paperwork but as well as a Proyecto de Ejecución e Instalación de Obra de Capitación de Aguas Subterraneas you need permits from the Consejería de Trabajo e Industria as well as the Ministerio de Medio Ambiente Confederación Hidrografica del Sur or the equivalent where you are.
It is certainly not a project for the faint-hearted.
It is certainly not a project for the faint-hearted.
Apr 25th 2009, 5:48 pm
#11
Joined: May 2006
Location: Galicia
Posts: 3,140
Re: well digging
I used to work in the water industry and I have one bit of advice. Do not locate the new well near the existing one as the water level will be drown down on both and in the end you will end up with two useless wells.
How they get the plastic pipe in is by drilling a slightly larger hole, insert the plastic pipe and let the ground settle around it again.
Sand is a cutting agent so it will wear down any pump you use.
With cement sections you will need to use a crane or JCB to lower them into the ground. The hole has to be quite large to accommodate the sections then you have to back fill around them. Threading the sections between the supports for the excavation is tricky. I am very pleased to read that you understand that the side of the excavation could (read will) collapse.
I would strong recommend using a contractor for the following reasons.
1) Digging down 10 Metres by hand is not going to be fun. 2) digging in sandy soil means there is a good chance the sides will collapse without support. More costs.
3) You will need a pump to remove the water when you hit it as the bottom of the well needs to be below the water supply.
4) Usually the deeper you go the more water is available so your well should be more than 10 Metres deep.
5) Most professionals know if water is available before excavation. This will save you time and money. Plus (at least up here in Galicia) they guarantee to find water. Then you only pay for the metreage dug on the well producing water.
6) If they find water they will test the flow to see if it will produce enough water. You cannot do that and end up with a useless supply.
7) You must ensure that your electrics are upgraded enough to run 2 pumps, plus other household items. A pump on its own consumes a lot of power and two!!!
If you really want to dig your own then here is a good link on what you need to know. http://www.ssrsi.org/sr2/Water/digh2o.htm There some parts you can ignore because they are not related to Spain
How they get the plastic pipe in is by drilling a slightly larger hole, insert the plastic pipe and let the ground settle around it again.
Sand is a cutting agent so it will wear down any pump you use.
With cement sections you will need to use a crane or JCB to lower them into the ground. The hole has to be quite large to accommodate the sections then you have to back fill around them. Threading the sections between the supports for the excavation is tricky. I am very pleased to read that you understand that the side of the excavation could (read will) collapse.
I would strong recommend using a contractor for the following reasons.
1) Digging down 10 Metres by hand is not going to be fun. 2) digging in sandy soil means there is a good chance the sides will collapse without support. More costs.
3) You will need a pump to remove the water when you hit it as the bottom of the well needs to be below the water supply.
4) Usually the deeper you go the more water is available so your well should be more than 10 Metres deep.
5) Most professionals know if water is available before excavation. This will save you time and money. Plus (at least up here in Galicia) they guarantee to find water. Then you only pay for the metreage dug on the well producing water.
6) If they find water they will test the flow to see if it will produce enough water. You cannot do that and end up with a useless supply.
7) You must ensure that your electrics are upgraded enough to run 2 pumps, plus other household items. A pump on its own consumes a lot of power and two!!!
If you really want to dig your own then here is a good link on what you need to know. http://www.ssrsi.org/sr2/Water/digh2o.htm There some parts you can ignore because they are not related to Spain
Apr 25th 2009, 6:27 pm
#12
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Re: well digging
Well, a couple of points. If t requires too much paperwork and cost, I won't bother. I don't mind bending the rules, but enough is enough. I need to build the tank whatever I do, to take the strain off pumping water around the garden for irrigation.
To cover your points.
We are on top of an artesian lake. I know the water is there. I'm not afraid of hard work or difficult tasks. While it's sand, it is pretty damn tough once you are below two feet (I had to dig a serious hole by hand to build the septic tank). I know how sand collapses. Hell, you can't even drive a hole for a bamboo cane without removing all the loose first.
Despite the work involved, sometimes it is far more interesting and instructive to do a job yourself.
As for the pump and the electric supply. The whole idea for this was to use a wind powered pump, to reduce the need for using electrics.
To cover your points.
We are on top of an artesian lake. I know the water is there. I'm not afraid of hard work or difficult tasks. While it's sand, it is pretty damn tough once you are below two feet (I had to dig a serious hole by hand to build the septic tank). I know how sand collapses. Hell, you can't even drive a hole for a bamboo cane without removing all the loose first.
Despite the work involved, sometimes it is far more interesting and instructive to do a job yourself.
As for the pump and the electric supply. The whole idea for this was to use a wind powered pump, to reduce the need for using electrics.
Apr 25th 2009, 7:19 pm
#13
Joined: May 2006
Location: Galicia
Posts: 3,140
Re: well digging
Thank you for adding that you want a wind powered pump…That ads other complications like changing from AC to DC etc
You may still need a tank to store water when the wind is not blowing. Have you priced up the parts for using wind power?
Good luck with the paperwork!
You may still need a tank to store water when the wind is not blowing. Have you priced up the parts for using wind power?
Good luck with the paperwork!
Apr 25th 2009, 7:23 pm
#14
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Re: well digging
Well, the tank I need anyway The pump would be directly powered, probably by a savonius rotor, as those are pretty solid and low tech, so DC/AC isn't relevant.
As I say, if the grief and cost of a well are too high, I'll skip it.
A friend tells me that he knows an estate agen that reckons most wells in Spain are illegal.
As I say, if the grief and cost of a well are too high, I'll skip it.
A friend tells me that he knows an estate agen that reckons most wells in Spain are illegal.
Last edited by poshnbucks; Apr 26th 2009 at 1:05 am.
Apr 25th 2009, 8:52 pm
#15
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Re: well digging
I can't see how hard it would be, I mean its not like its a skilled job or anything...................... you go for it Bill.
