Visa over-stayers, how does Spain react to them?
 

I know since Brexit UK citizens have had to sort out residency etc in Spain in order to stay there legally, but my query, which I can't really find an answer to via Mr Google, concerns non-EU citizens.

If one is a non-EU citizen, and enters on the Schengen visa, thus getting 90 days in Spain, what happens at the end of the 90 days? I realise that one would become an over-stayer, but in reality, what happens? Do the Spanish authorities actually carry out any checks? Would they be likely to detect someone who has over-stayed their Schengen 90 days?
Or would one be able to work on the black, and avoid detection for months or even years?

Please no judgements on the morality of this, I am not supporting the idea of over-staying, I am genuinely curious as to whether it would be possible for someone to stay in a Spanish city indefinitely without detection, working cash in hand.

Cheers guys

Re: Visa over-stayers, how does Spain react to them?
 

Hola,
Yes of course it is in theory possible. In practice, there is a "Stop & Search" type routine in most countries where the fact could be uncovered. Most probably you are more likely to be stopped in a car, but all countries have ways to stop illegal immigrants

Davexf

Re: Visa over-stayers, how does Spain react to them?
 

Sure it's possible. Plenty of UK people have not legalised their stay in Europe since Brexit.

Indefinitely is not a certainty though.....

Re: Visa over-stayers, how does Spain react to them?
 

Thanks! Sounds like in theory then someone could get away with it for quite some time, specially if they are a non driver. Bit of a shame in sioe cases where it would be nice to see justice done!

Re: Visa over-stayers, how does Spain react to them?
 

If you are getting wound up about the idea of overstayers enjoying all the same privileges as everyone else, well maybe you could consider justice as being done in that a person who is in a country illegally doesn't normally have any of the same rights as those who are there illegally.
Normally they have no entitlement to healthcare, social security or financial support if they need it. In some countries it's difficult for them to find accommodation, open a bank account, buy a car etc. If they need to earn money they're likely to be exploited. They can't leave the country and come back. There's the insecurity of knowing that if they attract the attention of the authorities in any way, the game is up. All they are "getting away with", really, is being in a country they shouldn't be in. Presumably they feel that being in Spain even with no rights, is better than being in their home country. Which is sad.

Re: Visa over-stayers, how does Spain react to them?
 

Agree with ET. Political refugees being excepted, non-EUs overstaying their 90 days in any EU country with the intention of staying put illegally, would live with the insecurity of being found out. They would have to stay healthy, not have an accident (hospital- and police-wise), be housed by a landlord who knows their status and is likely to exploit the fact, be exploited by an employer who illegally accepts workers on the black, the list of potential miseries is long and, as ET says, it's sad if such a person prefers them to living in their home country.

Re: Visa over-stayers, how does Spain react to them?
 

You would also not be able to leave the Schengen area and come back again.

In fact I'm wondering what would happen if you DID decide to fly outside of Schengen and went through passport control at the airport (which only happens when you fly outside of Schengen). Is there a possibility that instead of proceeding to board your flight you would be taken into custody, made to stay several hours or overnight, fined, banned from re-entering the EU Schengen area for many years, and then virtually frogmarched onto a different flight as a deportee?

Re: Visa over-stayers, how does Spain react to them?
 

If you try to go through passport control and your papers are not in order it's vanishing unlikely that you will be allowed to go on your way as if nothing was. That is what border control is for, to check that everyone's papers are in order before they are allowed to cross the border.
I guess it would depend on whether you'd overstayed by a few days or by a long time and what the circumstances were, but certainly you could expect to be fined and banned from entering Schengen again for a period (though I doubt it would be many years unless you had seriously overstayed). Not sure about the frogmarching bit - if you are already leaving of your own accord and have paid for your travel, there is no need for a formal deportation process is there.
Of course there is border control at the international ports as well, not only at airports.
I think you would have to be a bit stupid to attempt it without weighing up the potential consequences of making the trip, and not making it.

Re: Visa over-stayers, how does Spain react to them?
 

If you are British, not resident in an EU state and you overstay in the Schengen area you will be caught when you leave.

These are the rules:

https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/new...ace-penalties/

Some UK nationals will go underground and never leave the Schengen area but they run the risk of being caught and deported.

Welcome to Brexit.

Re: Visa over-stayers, how does Spain react to them?
 

Málaga and Alicante airports have gates in which you pass through. If your travel entitlements have expired, it's likely you will be buttonholed and deported at your own expense. It's likely other big airports have the same gates. You are taking a chance if your paperwork is not in order and you always will be looking over your shoulder.

Re: Visa over-stayers, how does Spain react to them?
 

Many variations of overstayers. They could be people that have lived under the radar for years under the old membership of EU rules. If they are how do the border officials know how long they have stayed as they would have no entry stamp? Do they just accept what the overstayers says or investigate? Where does overstayer go while being investigated? They issue a fine? Probably in the form of fixed penalty or do they demand the fine payment there and then as how could they follow up if not paid given any Spanish address would not be suitable as they wouldn't be allowed back certainly until situation legalised. I could see the whole thing being very messy in reality, it may be simpler to say you've overstayed passport etc stamped accordingly to show this get out don't come back unless you are legally entitled and issue an on the spot fine.

Re: Visa over-stayers, how does Spain react to them?
 

Cant answer for what Spain are doing or not to British overstayers. But I can tell you what happened to a Canadian workmate of mine.

In 2017 we went on a job to France and my workmate (who was a contractor) said he was going on holiday and I was just giving him a ride (he came from Canada to the Uk and we drove through the Chunnal).
After sorting the job in France I returned to the Uk and he travelled around the EU ending up in Spain. He stayed here for around 4 months and then decided to travel back to Canada as we were planned to do an installation there a couple of months later.

At Madrid airport he was taken aside and asked why he had overstayed his 90 day visa. He basically said that he was having a great time and the weather was better than at home (-30 compared with +20).
All they did was scan his passport, stamp it on the out date with a nice red stamp and escorted him on the plane back home to Canada.
Fast forward to 2019 and he was going to visit us while we were here for a holiday (hadn't moved over then)

When applying for his travel visa online, it was refused and told him to contact the Spanish Embassy in Toronto. He did and was told that he had a 3 year ban from the whole of the EU.
He still keeps in touch and once the ban is up he will be visiting us.

So no fine just a ban.

I would imagine that the Spanish authorities would look at each case individually and make a decision.
Can you imagine someone who has lived here for years under the radar (and I know of at least one couple who still have not bothered because they could not meet the requirements we had to last year) and has no address in the Uk being banned from re-entry to Spain for 3 years????

Now whether the UK would stop them from travelling and then they were turned around in Spain is another matter. You don't need a visa to leave a country, just to enter.

Ive had shed loads of work visa's over the years and NONE have been checked on the way out of the UK. Ive watched as they look at my passport. (not even when travelling about 2 months after 9/11 to the USA with a current Saudi work visa taking up 2 pages of my passport) was asked loads of questions at the other end but hey ho...

Re: Visa over-stayers, how does Spain react to them?
 

Well the fact of having no entry stamp, would be grounds for assuming, unless they can prove to the contrary, that their most recent entry into the country predated 1.1.21. Because if they'd entered on or after 1.1.21, they should have an entry stamp. On that assumption, as of the end of October they could potentially be treated as having overstayed by at least 7 months.

Re: Visa over-stayers, how does Spain react to them?
 

Why would the UK stop them travelling? What have visas got to do with it? Brits don't need a visa in any case to visit Spain.
It would be entering Spain that would be the issue, if there is an issue at all.

Re: Visa over-stayers, how does Spain react to them?
 

Yes that's one way of looking at it and probably the simplest way of dealing with it. As I say there are a number of differing types of overstayers. I would guess ease of dealing will be main concern and as someone stated earlier stamp passport showing overstayed ban for x period of time from entering Schengen zone. Could be very awkward if one has been in EU for years under the radar and has no place to live in the UK. One could say we won't leave Schengen zone but then situations could arise that scuppers that plan. Personally I prefer to be right side of the rules/law come and go as allowed. I'm sure over time we will hear in the news/media how this is dealt with, no doubt claiming its the EU picking on Brits 😉

Re: Visa over-stayers, how does Spain react to them?
 

Well fun and games will start when ETIAS becomes operational.
https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/etias/

Re: Visa over-stayers, how does Spain react to them?
 

An interesting read, thanks everyone.
To answer a comment from Eurotrash, its not about being wound up cos of someone being there illegally, more about wanting justice (and karma) to prevail in a certain situation!

Re: Visa over-stayers, how does Spain react to them?
 

Traditionally countries never cared about those exiting their borders (though Australia sure as heck did!) and often didn't even have passport control. Fast-rewind to the good ol' USA pre 9/11 and there was absolutely no passport/immigration control for those leaving. You simply checked-in, went through security, then boarded your plane.

About the "frogmarching" bit I believe it would all depend on how long it would take to process you, enter a ban into the system, etc., before letting you depart. The plane certainly won't wait. And if it's the last or only one that day maybe they do hold on to you overnight.

I do wonder what would happen if say your original flight was to Bournemouth, you ended up missing that due to processing, and the only other flight that day was to Scotland. Could they force you on to that one? :)

Any ban would naturally apply to the whole common border area which in this case would be the Schengen Area. Though since he's Canadian then at the time the UK might automatically have been alerted to include him in their own system since the UK was never part of Schengen.

Likewise, if a UK national does something wrong in one country then that's all it takes for them to be banned from entering the entire EU Schengen Area. So almost an EU-wide ban though they would probably be able to travel to Ireland (though not onwards from there). :)

Re: Visa over-stayers, how does Spain react to them?
 

:confused: Qué?

Re: Visa over-stayers, how does Spain react to them?
 

I know a girl from Latin America who had applied for asylum here but it was rejected. She had been here a few years already pending a decision.

But when her application was rejected, she was told she had 15 days to leave spain.

She now works cash in hand but tends to avoids areas where she is likely to come in contact with the police.

She has told me as she is illegal, if the police stop her and do a check it will come up immediately that she is now illegal.

She will be duly detained and deported.

It is a bit ironic that UK citizens who voted for Brexit, in order to keep the foreigners out, as they were clogging up health servies etc. and not paying their fair contributions, are now seeking ways to stay under the radar in Spain and, remain as illegals here and use the health services etc. if they can get away with it.

Re: Visa over-stayers, how does Spain react to them?
 

That's the sad reality facing many hard-working people who might not even have a place to go back to.

I can't imagine living in fear of avoiding a simple traffic stop or even seeking any sort of medical attention in case it results in a cross-continent deportation

Whoa, "not paying their fair contribution"...? Hold up there for a moment! I think we're thinking on similar wavelengths but it turns out we've been sold a bunch of fibs or carefully-planned omissions of even the most basic of statistics that are even publicly available. Those who voted for Brexit wanted 100% legal residents to be kicked out. Brexit has nothing to do with illegals.

Turns out EEA migrants are the ones who are not only paying their fair contribution but are actually paying a HUGE SURPLUS into the UK budget. Taking them out of the equation is catastrophic because whereas native UK residents are pretty much balancing the budget (maybe a small deficit in what is being paid in and out), non-EU migrants are pulling the figures down. So guess what's going to happen when EU nationals are removed from this picture?

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/british...5e2a23a49e.png

Re: Visa over-stayers, how does Spain react to them?
 

Fly to Dublin (Shengen so no passport control) then pop across to NI and on to UK? Or doesnt that work?

Re: Visa over-stayers, how does Spain react to them?
 

Ireland isn't in the Schengen Area.

Re: Visa over-stayers, how does Spain react to them?
 

Isn't that a fancy dress for revenge?

Re: Visa over-stayers, how does Spain react to them?
 

No. If a person takes the attitude that they do not have to comply with rules and suffer negative consequences it is not called revenge it is called paying for your illegal actions. Taking responsibility for your actions means that you also take responsibility for outcomes.

Rosemary

Re: Visa over-stayers, how does Spain react to them?
 

Yes there are 'outcomes' and I do see consequences for bad behaviors very often, however, IMO, it is not up to Pollyannato to make Karma happen. Or am I missing something, is that not what she implies?

Re: Visa over-stayers, how does Spain react to them?
 

No one makes Karma happen. It does it all on its own. I also think you will find that the majority of residents on this forum would like to see all the illegals rounded up and deported.

Re: Visa over-stayers, how does Spain react to them?
 

Yikes! Why?

Re: Visa over-stayers, how does Spain react to them?
 

For a start, every one of them not paying tax is effectively helping themselves to the contents of my wallet.
I'd happily round them up myself.

Re: Visa over-stayers, how does Spain react to them?
 

Looks like we have the makings of a lynch mob, on here...

:thumbdown:

Re: Visa over-stayers, how does Spain react to them?
 

Why not? Surely if there is no consequence for simply ignoring the law then what's the point of the law? It may be better in the first instance to identify such people and give them x amount of time to legalise their position? If they ignore that then they should be told to leave ASAP.

Re: Visa over-stayers, how does Spain react to them?
 

Yes you are probably right. Long term legal residents are fed up with illegals driving around in illegal UK registered cars and paying no taxes.

Personally I have paid all my taxes for over 20 years and could buy a decent apartment or a Ferrari with what I have paid out.

The only good thing about Brexit for us residents is that it is more likely to get rid of these illegal scroungers due to the new more restrictive regulations regarding residency and freedom of movement within the Schengen area.

​​​​​​⠀‹Where can I join the lynch mob?

Re: Visa over-stayers, how does Spain react to them?
 

​​​​​​⠀‹I agree. There has been plenty of publicity from all quarters re need for people to legalise their situation and even help provided in some situations. Therefore I would have not a jot of sympathy if they get booted out of Spain. It will get more and more difficult for them to continue as they are.

Re: Visa over-stayers, how does Spain react to them?
 

My level of sympathy would entirely depend on how they voted in the EU referendum.

Re: Visa over-stayers, how does Spain react to them?
 

Makes no difference.
They had the same amount of time that I had - 90 days.
No extensions, no amnesties get them out.

Re: Visa over-stayers, how does Spain react to them?
 

They had 183 days per annum before they had to become tax resident. This figure of 90 days for EU nationals is wrong. Everyone knows that many UK nationals stayed in Spain for 183 days pre Brexit, that's why they are lobbying the EU states to retain it via a special visa. Good luck with that.

Re: Visa over-stayers, how does Spain react to them?
 

Pre Brexit.
On arrival in Spain, if your intention was to remain for in excess of 90 days you were obliged to join the Register of Foreigners (Residency) immediately. In any event you were obliged to register once in the country for 90 days.
183 days for tax purposes is a different issue.

Re: Visa over-stayers, how does Spain react to them?
 

Let's face most of these people being discussed broke the 90 day rule and the 183 day rule knowingly why should anyone have any sympathy. Yes there used to be some holiday home owners that breached the 90 day rule by a few weeks or so. One could understand that they were holiday home owners to keep endlessly obtaining and then de registering to comply would have proved difficult to say the least. Others just totally ignored all the rules avoiding tax etc in Spain etc. I don't see how anyone can be sympathetic to such people irrespective of how they voted regarding brexit.

Re: Visa over-stayers, how does Spain react to them?
 

Besides, there really can't be that many British 'illegals' left in Spain.

My guess we are debating a problem that does not even exist.

Anyone working in the black economy would have had to go back to the UK as everything including bars etc has been shut for ages during covid.

I simply cannot imagine that anyone of retirement age with all that entails in terms of maturity would not have regularised their circumstances here in Spain, to ensure they did not fall foul of the new post Brexit reality.

See, there we are, no problem exists!

Re: Visa over-stayers, how does Spain react to them?
 

You have little view of reality and a very limited imagination.