Re: Violence in Spain
 

not only too fast but too deep
but then Spain has had a lot of stick for unfinished roads to nowhere as they have hit an "unexpected problem" and run out of money. also unfinished housing estates, airports etc.
chopping vanity products is fine, but essentials should get serious consideration.

Re: Violence in Spain
 

http://news.sky.com/story/d/riot-pol...lash-in-madrid

Trouble brewing ?

trouble with the link as well it seems

Re: Violence in Spain
 

Re: Violence in Spain
 

A Spanish friend was saying "Los tiempos de Franco han vuelto.", referring to the recent charges by the police, and the fact they were masked and wearing no identification. Obviously there is no way any police could be punished, whatever they dish out. The article complains of the "Spanish brand" that is being reported all over the world.
http://m.20minutos.es/detail.php?id=...&newID=1598656

Re: Violence in Spain
 

Just been watching the bother in Madrid on the news. Shocking.

Looks to be turning really ugly now.

First time I've ever seen the Spanish cops get a kicking.

I think the gloves are off and all bets are off from now on.

Re: Violence in Spain
 

I was watching the English news channels yesterday when they covered the riots in Madrid.

I quickly switched over to quite a few Spanish news channels and none of them covered the riots. The main news channel showed the usual Spanish cookery lessons, a chef in a hat with four frying pans on the go, shovelling everything he could find into them.

I've only got three frying pans, but I watched intently and had a go. It didn't taste bad, but I'm still burping today, and stink of garlic.

Re: Violence in Spain
 

Probably because the Spanish news is on at a different time to the UK news!

The demonstrations (they are not riots) have been all over the news programmes, and newspapers

Re: Violence in Spain
 

I was watching the 24-hour news, for both countries, but you may be right, I find the UK news a bit more hysterical than the Spanish equivalent.

And don't they (the UK) love to highlight Spain's problems, which I believe is because they are miffed by the million UK expats sunning themselves in Spain, while there are riots and floods back in the UK, and the government think that the majority of people are Plebs.

I can't think of the Spanish equivalent for Plebs, and maybe Rajoy thinks the same about whatever that equivalent may be - he is a Conservative, after all.

Re: Violence in Spain
 

For reasons I will not go into here, it is my experience that a hard core percentage of 'Rioters' or 'Demonstrators' have no real reason or 'cause' to fight for any aspect in particular, as a matter of fact they are at BEST unclear as to exactly WHAT they are 'fighting' for! I accept the situation within the EEC, and the reason why people are demonstrating, but:

You can call them Anarchists (if they in fact understand the meaning of that word) if you like, 'bovver boys', 'lefties' or whatever, but theres is sometimes a thread.

Without getting too much into Politics, History is filled with a group of intelligent people or even ONE person who can manipulate, 'spellbind' or just whip up a whole mass of people who are just basically disgruntled, fed up, angry or frustrated with a situation or what they perceive (or are lead to believe) a problem means to them, even better if they are 'unintelligent'. People normally deal with this 'by voting with their feet' or exchanging views/ protesting peacefully etc (as sometimes happens on this Forum!!!)

Basically, some of these people simply look for trouble in order to loot, fight with the Police, commit Serious Crime or just to get in a 'ruck'............ I wouldn't call them 'rebels without a cause' ( more scum of the earth to be honest), but you get the idea. The unfortunate thing is that lately they are ORGANISED, with effective 'Leadership', a vast Intelligence network and a Communication chain that means they can add fuel to any fire anywhere at anytime. If you may doubt this, ask yourself why it has been shown the SAME faces appear in so many riots at so many places.....but the surprise is that the 'cause' is always different!!!!!!

Re: Violence in Spain
 

gentuza ? (I'm not 100% sure, those dimunitives aren't always what they seem)

Re: Violence in Spain
 

I was always under the impression that demonstrations were meant to be peaceful protests and yesterday's ugly affair was far from that.

OK not all of the demonstrators rioted but I was quite surprised how the ones that did were prepared to quite openly attack the cops, given the reputation that the Spanish police already have for unwarranted thuggery.

Earlier demonstrations have mostly passed off peaceably and little has become of them, but the degree of anger in the masses,even those who stayed behind the lines, was very clear to see yesterday and also very worrying, giving the impression that they were all pretty damned close to breaking point and a full scale riot.

It's all very worrying,especially because of the numbers involved and had they all broke ranks there's little doubt that the cops would have been completely overcome yesterday with tragic results and far reaching consequences.

Re: Violence in Spain
 

Maybe they are really just a load of ordinary people of average intelligence who are simply fed up of having forced austerity thrust upon them simply to keep a bunch of crooks, politicians and banksters in the lifestyle they're accustomed to?

Maybe these same ordinary people are too scared of losing their jobs to spare the time for organising a peaceful protest? Of course, peaceful protests always get result don't they? I mean, how many ordinary people protested peacefully against invading Iraq? That had such an amazing influence that they were completely ignored. Contrast that with the recent London riots. They didn't get ignored.

The fact is that peaceful protest just does not work anymore. The right to free speech is being eroded. You need to book an appointment and get official permission before you can legally protest now. The ballot box is no better. Politicians promise whatever will get them into power, then do the opposite when elected. Who rules the EU? No-one I've ever voted for (or against for that matter).

I believe that it's about time that the ordinary people stood up for themselves in the only way they realistically have left. It's just a pity that the riot police have been sufficiently bribed to persuade them to beat up their neighbours in order to protect a bunch of crooked politicians rather than joining them in the protest.

Re: Violence in Spain
 

I take your point, thats what Society has come to, nobody gets anywhere unless theres such a furore that it attracts attention. The trouble is that 'ordinary' people and their cause get the whole picture distorted by others who are just intent on 'serious' rioting, never mind why, they just want it that way.

Its the 'ordinary people' that suffered when their shops got looted, they were mugged by 'protesters', their cars got burned, friends and relatives got injured and their homes were invaded/damaged by these 'mobs'. So surely, that is in itself counter-productive and only makes their situation far worse?

You have to face the fact that in general ' conflict resolution' for the Police no longer involves trying to talk the situation down, and that is for the very reason you highlighted...... peaceful protests do nothing......... it involves escalating to the level that you are confronted with and thats the ugly truth out there. I do accept that you can never account for a Police Officer who goes over the top with this, but they will have to face the consequences, unlike the hoards of masked/unidentified people who basically do what they please.

I only wish that the practice of 'selective reporting' was abolished and the general public saw the raw truth, real time aspects of a riot. I promise you it would be an eye-opener.

Re: Violence in Spain
 

Most of the video footage that has been shown has 'hoards of masked/unidentified people who basically do what they please' and these were identified as the police.

Re: Violence in Spain
 

What on earth are you talking about? :blink:

Riots are few and far between, the only real ones I can think of over the past 10 years or so - are the anti-capitalist riots and the London riots. The London ones are the only that didnt have a cause

Spain has been filled with peaceful demonstrations over the past 30 years or so. There is one every few days here in Oviedo. When I lived in Barcelona 4 or 5 years ago, there was one every weekend. Each had a cause they were demonstrating for

The 15M and 25S demonstrations in Spain have been peaceful, only turning to violence when provoked by the police. The Spanish police hit peaceful protestors when they do something the government dont like e.g. not wanting to leave Plaza del sol in Madrid when the Pope comes to town, or leaving the central square in Barcelona when a football match was due to take place

The politicians send instructions to the police to use violence to remove protestors

The problem is with the politicians and the system (run by bankers). The blame doesnt lie with the brave protestors or even with the "puppet" police

Wake up and learn something about what is going on in the country you live in!