Re: Violence in Spain
 

When the bitch Thatcher closed down the mines she destroyed whole communities the effects of which can still be seen in some areas where lifelong unemployment is not from choice but by virtue of the fact there are no jobs. Personally I'd rather have my tax money subsidise mining jobs than having people sat with no need to get up in the morning struggling on benefits to put food on the table.

Re: Violence in Spain
 

when Heath asked us the question "who runs this country me and the elected government or the miners and the unions" regrettably we told him the miners and the unions
Thatcher never ever forgot that lesson
Scargill was getting all he wanted and more under the Labour Govt and felt omnipotent, so where would the country have been if he had succeded a second time ???

Coming from Welsh mining family on father's side I understand the feeling, but even so, many of the mines were clapped out, mined out, men were spending more time travelling to the face than actually working.
Should mines have been kept open as a form of charity ? Most miners I ever met never looked for charity - only fair treatment.
OK blame Thatcher bob, but also blame the unions who had been taking their dues every month but dropped people like hot cakes when they were out of a job. They made no effort to support those out of work, even allowing the working mens clubs to refuse membership to many men. That is why unions are so weak nowadays, they cocked up the opportunity back then and never recovered.

Blame someone? Hard but go back to Scargill and ask what happened to all the £millions the Russian miners sent over in support of their British brothers.
Also the more recent scandal of Compensation, where Union appointed solicitors shafted the mines twice or three times in fees that had already been paid by the govt, giving the unions a slice but it has never been seen. Although legal action has been started against some of the solicitors - but the people being compensated have now died penniless and suffering.

Just remember the UK has union officials living in £million houses, fully founded with not a penny to pay. Company cars, chauffeurs. Expensive suits and expense accounts to suit.

It is hard when the reason a community exists closes down. It happened with Tin, Fish, Clay, not just the miners and will happen again, if not in the UK or Spain but in other countries.

Re: Violence in Spain
 

Yes that is the problem.

And its not only about telling Germany they want to leave the Euro

If a country wants to abandon the neo-liberal banking system then they may find themselves at war with the UK/US, if they say they will put taxes on cheap imports, they may find themselves at war with China

Its very difficult for citizens of a country to be in control of their own destiny nowadays

Re: Violence in Spain
 

That's exactly why we have a European currency union. I'm inclined to agree that it hasn't worked, but the principle is sound - individual European countries can't compete with the mighty US, India, China and the others, not in the globalised world we now live in.

Currency speculators like Soros can shut down and ruin entire countries by their evil activity; it happened when the UK was forced out of the ERM, by Soros.

Each small country back with its own currency, like the Peseta in Spain and the Punt in Ireland, is a nationalist's dream, but it's a million miles from reality.

Those currencies, against the Dollar or the Yen, will be like monopoly money, practically worthless.

Re: Violence in Spain
 

You make some good points (a lot of my wife's family were miners including her father) and Arthur was.......don't get me started on him. I nursed a good many miners as they were ending their days, lungs shot to bits with dust, a compensation scheme that I could never fathom out, some chaps applying and getting a cheque in no time while others applied and were dead before payout; e.g. my father in law applied and was told it could take six months before he heard anything more but in fact he had a cheque for £68k within a fortnight. There is no doubt that the unions needed slowing down but to cut a swathe through whole communities leaving them barren was out of order; still drug sales/manufacturing are a booming cottage industry in the valley's these days :(

Quick tale of Arthur, when the strike was going on and people were collecting tins of food to make up food parcels, holding out the money bucket etc, the wife and I went for a meal in Birmingham where we were based at the time. The restaurant was brums finest French eatery, excellent food for the time. Just as our main course was served Arthur and half a dozen others turned up and ordered. I managed to keep the wife quiet and she waited until we were on our way out to walk over and very quietly and succinctly 'read his fortune'. The really annoying part is that his predictions as to the future of the coal industry were right :(

So, should Spain continue to subsidise the coal industry? For me the answer is yes, without a doubt.

Re: Violence in Spain
 

Closing down the mines was the right thing to do - what she got wrong was not providing development funds for the communities affected. However 13 years of a Labour government will have sorted that out won't it?:sneaky:

Re: Violence in Spain
 

Quite a few of those miners with the collecting buckets were convicted. A few had been throwing money around whilst on strike and two had bought new cars:( The NUM, well mainly Scargill, accepted money from gadaffi, he did as much as anyone to bring about the end of the industry. The steel, shipbuilding and fishing industry also disappeared and there weren't too many showing any concern about them.

Re: Violence in Spain
 

Correct, and at the end of the day you can´t go on subsidising every loss making industry ad infinitum, mining was no more deserving than any of the others in my mind.

Re: Violence in Spain
 

Funny how umpteen billions can always be found for the bankers though, isn't it? :thumbdown:

Re: Violence in Spain
 

Lots of development funds were available, much taken too, sadly when the business funding/discounts ran out so did the companies.

Re: Violence in Spain
 

Love em or hate em, when Tories are in, we always get riots and stikes, looks similar here now doesn't it?

Re: Violence in Spain
 

Of course we do. The Tories put the money in the bank by reducing the spending, the country eventually gets fed up with it and vote in the Labour party they then promise the earth to everyone, spend it all and some more and when we are skint the Tories come back and it all starts again.

What's the point of a Libdem?

Re: Violence in Spain
 

Absolutely.

The thickest of people know that you cannot keep a buisness going that is losing money for ever. The taxpayer bailed out the miners and the unions for too long. Thatcher halted the gravy train.

Miners for some reason always belived that they were a special case, Why? They knew it was a shit job when they started, they knew it wouldn't last because imported coal was cheaper but still they followed their forebears down the pit. Why? because they believed it was a well paid job for life. The Unions had the country to ransome and they thought they were invincible.

Re: Violence in Spain
 

They exercised their right to strike, but strongly opposed the right of those that wanted to continue working with their bully boy tactics. I think when they dropped lumps of concrete from a bridge killing an innocent taxi driver they lost most public support they might have had.

Re: Violence in Spain
 

The only good thing about Scargill .. he had woolly hair like me ....alas not so intelligent though!

:(