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Re: UK Leaving the EU
Originally Posted by rugbymatt
(Post 11087133)
What on EARTH are you on about?
Taking that sort of bizarre logic you could also say that under EU membership we have also not see a biblical plague or the Spanish Flu therefore the EU has cured European pandemics! The coal industry in the UK was killed by Chinese, Russian, German, American, Australian and numerous other countries being able to supply us with cheaper coal than we can get for ourselves, the car industry is thriving, even in this recession it's held it's own compared to the likes of Ford and GM.... If what you are talking about is the demise of the likes of British Leyland then thank god for that! There is hardly a car build in the "heyday" of BL that I'd happily buy, they were awful, even Rover was an absolute shambles and I include the Landrover in that to some extent, even though I am a landrover man, there are whole decades that cars rolled off the West Midlands line that are shameful in quality.... And if you don't think that we have a car industry because the Japs own most of it then go and tell that to the tens of thousands of workers and peripheral workers who benefit day in day out thanks to the skills set we can provide. As to the rest then we only have ourselves to blame. I come from an engineering family, ask then, any of them, what the issue is, it's that people in the UK want the cheapest possible things to fill their vacuous lives, they don't want to buy quality, they want something cheap and we can not compete with the Far East and South America when it comes to labour. Want that industry to come on home? Stop buying Chinese products.... It didnt stop the managers going for overseas trade and laying of good skilled, Workers, but those same managers liked the idea of staying here, and not going to the countries, they sold out to. Unions, everybodys excuse..poor, very poor.Unions didnt stop whole sale manafacturing, it didnt stop abrubtly..Yes the harbour and dockworkers caused, some difficulties, yes there were some bad unionist, but very few of the skilled Labour striked, including in closed shops.The miners strike lost nothing to the Countrys gross capital. WITH better management the rail and dustbinmenstrike, would of been solved earlier.For the fire services that was a disgrace and sell out from a u turn on previous promises, from the gov.organisations. We have had an Olympics in 2012, and talk of a leagacy.There should of been no need, All political parties are/were guilty of quelling competion and sport at school. Crazy weak directors politically supported, for selling off school sports fields, and saying competition is not good for young children. Strange top schools kept their sport and fields. Unions supported financially upto 70% to many rehabilition centers, and work programs for the , disabled at work.They also contributed to the NHS work and re-education schemes.In those movements and centers were good jobs, replaced by benefits. Oh yes scargill and red ken, needed kicking between the legs, but not the union movement. |
Re: UK Leaving the EU
So, apart and beside from the negative effect on those of us Brits who live abroad, would the UK (or whatever remains of it) be somehow "better" if it left the EU?
Would it stop raining? |
Re: UK Leaving the EU
Originally Posted by crookesey
(Post 11087108)
Since joining the EU, the UK has lost the following:-
It's steel industry Most of it's heavy engineering industry Most of it's car manufacturing industry Most of it's motor cycle industry It's ship building industry It's coal mining industry This all happened on the EU's watch, it could have course just be a set of coincidences. :sneaky: restrictive practices, double the numbers of employed to put a rivet into a hole, apprentice schemes controlled by said unions that weeded out those non-compliant with union activities just one example - Red Robbo at Leyland killed not only the company but the British car industry. That is why Thatcher said she would never kowtow to the unions and the thought of inviting them into No 10 for a fish and chip supper like Wilson was enough for her to grab her handbag. She knew full well that Heath asked the question of the British people "who runs this country - the government or the unions" at a general election which he resoundingly lost. If he had won then history would be much much different, but Thatcher knew she could never let it get that far. As to the EU, Heath would probably have given up the £ eventually, but really would that have been a bad thing. Problem was that De Gaulle was so full of praise for the way the Brits backed him and the French nation, spending £millions on supplies and agents lives that once he got back to home soil he entered into discussions with Germany :ohmy: into a pact that resulted in the EU and refused to allow the UK to play a part. Probably because he felt that they would want a say in how it was constituted and run. Many of the UK's industries were on dodgy ground before the EU, especially as it was US Marshall funding that gave both Germany and France money to re-equip their manufacturing with the best of machinery the dollar could buy - direct from the US whilst the UK was left with dodgy clapped out machinery and a volatile workforce that wanted what they felt they were due after stopping the jackboot's march around the world. history lesson over ` |
Re: UK Leaving the EU
Originally Posted by Lenox
(Post 11087886)
Would it stop raining?
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Re: UK Leaving the EU
Younger folk don't remember the likes of Fiat, Renault, Citroen, Skoda and Auto Union rotting from the minute you took delivery of them. We had the Mini, MG, Jaguar, Triumph, the Rover P4 range were great cars, oh I forgot the moggy 100 what a workhorse, why do folk have a go at quality when they never experienced it? :confused:
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Re: UK Leaving the EU
Originally Posted by Domino
(Post 11087889)
all to do with the British Trade Union's :(
restrictive practices, double the numbers of employed to put a rivet into a hole, apprentice schemes controlled by said unions that weeded out those non-compliant with union activities just one example - Red Robbo at Leyland killed not only the company but the British car industry. That is why Thatcher said she would never kowtow to the unions and the thought of inviting them into No 10 for a fish and chip supper like Wilson was enough for her to grab her handbag. She knew full well that Heath asked the question of the British people "who runs this country - the government or the unions" at a general election which he resoundingly lost. If he had won then history would be much much different, but Thatcher knew she could never let it get that far. As to the EU, Heath would probably have given up the £ eventually, but really would that have been a bad thing. Problem was that De Gaulle was so full of praise for the way the Brits backed him and the French nation, spending £millions on supplies and agents lives that once he got back to home soil he entered into discussions with Germany :ohmy: into a pact that resulted in the EU and refused to allow the UK to play a part. Probably because he felt that they would want a say in how it was constituted and run. Many of the UK's industries were on dodgy ground before the EU, especially as it was US Marshall funding that gave both Germany and France money to re-equip their manufacturing with the best of machinery the dollar could buy - direct from the US whilst the UK was left with dodgy clapped out machinery and a volatile workforce that wanted what they felt they were due after stopping the jackboot's march around the world. history lesson over ` |
Re: UK Leaving the EU
The day I will start to believe in a union will be the day that that union takes over an ailing company and runs it itself using union labour.
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Re: UK Leaving the EU
Anyone mentioned the Musllemans yet?
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Re: UK Leaving the EU
Originally Posted by rugbymatt
(Post 11087908)
Shit manufacturing is the main cause of Leylands demise.
They also controlled Quality Control, who passed dodgy vehicles which went on sale. Same applies to Vauxhall, so its not just BL. ` |
Re: UK Leaving the EU
Originally Posted by crookesey
(Post 11087902)
Younger folk don't remember the likes of Fiat, Renault, Citroen, Skoda and Auto Union rotting from the minute you took delivery of them. We had the Mini, MG, Jaguar, Triumph, the Rover P4 range were great cars, oh I forgot the moggy 100 what a workhorse, why do folk have a go at quality when they never experienced it? :confused:
Vauxhall had a reputation for building cars with metal that bent and dented if you put your hand on it. Rover P4 was still a BL product, but used bolt on panels which were much in demand. Moggie was from a different era of manufacturing. Funny thing was that the same panel presses were used to make the BL bodywork as the Rolls Royce and Bentley but they didn't have rust problems |
Re: UK Leaving the EU
Originally Posted by Domino
(Post 11087935)
who controlled the manufacturing ?? The Unions.
They also controlled Quality Control, who passed dodgy vehicles which went on sale. Same applies to Vauxhall, so its not just BL. ` |
Re: UK Leaving the EU
Let's not get personal please.
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Re: UK Leaving the EU
Originally Posted by Domino
(Post 11087950)
Mini - rust bucket from the day before it left the production line, especially the box sills, also the floor in the area of the pedals.
Vauxhall had a reputation for building cars with metal that bent and dented if you put your hand on it. Rover P4 was still a BL product, but used bolt on panels which were much in demand. Moggie was from a different era of manufacturing. Funny thing was that the same panel presses were used to make the BL bodywork as the Rolls Royce and Bentley but they didn't have rust problems |
Re: UK Leaving the EU
Originally Posted by Fred James
(Post 11087977)
Let's not get personal please.
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Re: UK Leaving the EU
Originally Posted by Domino
(Post 11087935)
who controlled the manufacturing ?? The Unions.
They also controlled Quality Control, who passed dodgy vehicles which went on sale. Same applies to Vauxhall, so its not just BL. ` that formen were being instructed to tell them, to let an higher % of maybes through Out of 1000. PLUS TOLD not to spend the time on controlling the pressed-air cleaning, of wheel hubs, before mounting, then found out alot of chaf was clogging up, the free-running tests.Hence a drop on quality product. The Union didnt strike on this, but went to management, to query and qualify, job postions and responibilty, for department 'quality control'. They 1st denied any knowledge of any management order, but then the Foremens commitee got involved, and management then said That was a misunderstanding. It is also to be mentioned that the 'Quality control' were not the type to ask for down tools time.They did tend to lean to the ' right'. Shortly afterwards it was the Quality Control that began to be Outsourced from Management as an unappropiate and unnecesssry department. The skilled labour then asked for intervention and support from the Union. Even then , there were more discussions, before there was a work force support, to down tools for I believe 1/2 a day, to re-instate the department and its workers. There had already been voluntary redundencies and retirement that had cut the position by a 1/3, which again the work force, with union accepted some outsourcing, but for common sense, the group Quality control must stay. |
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