bethsmyls

Hi all,

My OH and I want to move out of London and to sunnier, cheaper climes. We have enough money to buy a small house on the med without a mortgage while we will never get on the property ladder in the UK.

I can work from anywhere in the world as I'm self-employed and work via the internet. My OH is a skilled, experienced landscaper and has had his own business doing this in the UK, but he doesn't speak any other languages.

We were first thinking of moving to Portugal and trying to get OH some work doing up and maintaining the gardens in ex-pats' villas, but after asking on the forums, people seem convinced this will not fly. They say that Brits in Portugal would rather pay less and get a Portuguese person to do it, even if they couldn't speak Portuguese that well.

But 2 friends of ours have lived in Spain (one in the Canaries and one on the mainland) and both said that ex-pats there would much rather have a Brit do the work because they find them more reliable than Spanish workmen. Is this true? We could afford a little house on the Costa del Sol, which has about 15% British residency. But only if it's true and my OH could actually get work.

Thanks for any advice.

Fred James

I can't answer for Portugal, but there are some English gardeners around in Spain. People often prefer them to the locals because it eases the language problem. Also Spanish gardeners tend to think that the perfect pruning tool is a chainsaw, an English gardener would more likely use secateurs!

That said, he would be doing well to get €10/hr and working in the summer heat takes some getting used to. Add to that the monthly cost of being self employed (about €250).

bethsmyls

Thank you Fred - that's reassuring to hear. Yes I read about the social security contributions already, because I'd have to pay them too. But not having to pay London rent and prices would probably make up for that.

Moses2013

Living mortgage free is a big advantage and being in the sun sounds great at first, but you have to consider other things like pensions and health care. I don't know how old you are, but if your partner can't find work and you're in an area with no other job prospects what then?






Fred James mentioned the heat and that can be deadly for some people who are not used to it. You might also have to consider higher electric costs if you're working from home, especially if you need air con.
Just things to consider.




I'm in my 30's and could be mortgage free in Spain too, but calculating costs I'd not be better off over there and am actually far better off where I am now with a mortgage, because of salary, pension etc.

bethsmyls

Hi Moses,

Thanks for replying.

Working from home, I'd assume I could put some of my costs of doing business (ie. electricity) on my expenses. But to me, it's not just the money. I'm finding life here stressful. I'm starting to dislike the UK very much. I'd rather live frugally and feel more independent than have more money.

By the way, my health is pretty bad. The healthcare system over here is now a joke. I have to wait 9 months to see specialists and then I pretty much get passed from pillar to post. If you've nothing life-threatening, the NHS is awful. Thanks Tory privatisation. I think my health would only improve outside of London.

My OH and finding a job for him is really our only concern. That's why I'm posting here - to see if it's even doable. We're in our mid-30s by the way.

cricketman

My wife and I left our careers in London 9 years ago to move to Spain and we are still here. We were 26 years old when we left. Our experience was the following

- I took my job with me so luckily had a London salary in Spain (and still do). This is a massive advantage and I highly recommend it
- My (Spanish) wife could only find jobs paying less than half what she was paid in London. It was very demotivating and no employer believed that at 26 she was managing a global team of 12 because most 26 Spaniards barely have any work experience, so she started her own company and worked self-employed. If you have an unbelievable CV at a young age, nobody will believe it
- You must pay the social security payments. Minimum 270 euros each, every month
- The health service in Spain is great in an emergency but very similar to the UK if you want to see a specialist. People with money in Spain always pay private to see a specialist
- If you are looking to move to the Costa del sol, there are not many British professionals there, and there are lots of pensioners and working class families e.g. gardeners. There is no longer an influx of more British people moving there, so your husband would have to displace a British gardener already working there, not easy
- Working life in Spain is just as stressful in the UK. The only thing you save is the stressful London commute, but other things will stress you out about Spain. Rents are low but so are salaries, so standard of life wont necessarily go up once you get used to the sun
- Working in the summer heat is an absolute torture, even inside! You will pine for the cloudy London days that are perfect for going to the office

Whatever you decide, good luck!

bethsmyls

Thanks for your reply Cricketman.

I would also be earning a reasonable salary, not a Spanish one, which would help us out a lot.

I have paid privately for some urgent testing because of NHS waiting times - I believe the cost would be lower in Spain than London if I needed the same again.

My OH specialises in luxury landscaping rather than more simple gardening. He's worked for quite a few celebs over here and won prizes at the Chelsea Flower Show. We were hoping to target that sort of market, so maybe find somewhere with access to both Marbella and Malaga. Going inland a bit to somewhere like Coin or Alhaurin el Grande might give us that access as well as being quieter and cheaper to live and being a little cooler than on the coast, I was thinking.

Oh it's not working life I find stressful. I love what I do. It's the rising rents, Tory government, London attitude, weather!!

Thanks for your input - it's really helpful.

cricketman

There are almost no British people in Malaga. ALhaurin El GRande is definitely not a luxury area. Parts of Marbella are very luxury and international (definitely not just British) as are Benahavis and Sotogrande further down the coast

But of course the rent are luxury to match, but your husband could commute from a less luxury area

bethsmyls

Haha that's what I meant - we could live in Alhaurin el Grande and he could work in Marbella.

I'm really surprised that there are no Brits in Malaga, but thanks for the tips on further down the coast. I speak both German and French so I wouldn't mind doing bookings for him. Most people speak English, but if not, I've found French a great substitute and occasionally got to practice my German as well.

Moses2013

With French, you'd likely be better off on the Costa Brava. At least you could maybe target more French people and you also have the option of being closer to France. You can buy a decent sized detached house with garden from around 130K around Blanes/Lloret and it's only 1 hr 30 mins from Perpignan.

bethsmyls

Thanks Moses. Unfortunately we don't have that much money to spend on a property. Personal circumstances mean we don't have a lot saved. But we can afford a 1 or 2 bed townhouse with a terrace or garden around Malaga province. I've seen stuff on the net we can afford in Coin and Alhaurin el Grande, which are not far to drive to from Marbella.

Obviously we'll have to come over and scope out all the areas before we decide on anywhere or anything, but I'm trying to get a feel for what is and isn't achievable, and figure out where we should be looking.

Moses2013

But be careful that you don't end up with an expensive building project, as that can happen in Spain. There are obviously cheaper properties around too that aren't bad. You'd also have the option of buying land and putting a cube house on your plot. Loads of younger Spanish families are going for that option and you can get a damp free house for 50K if you don't need a huge home.

bethsmyls

Indeed! Yes I've been reading all about that. All sorts of other traps to beware as well, like ensuring sellers have left no outstanding debt or taxes on their house. Not heard of the cube house though! I will look that up.

No we don't need a big home, although we do have to have a house rather than an apartment because we have a cat who will be going wherever we go. So we need to own a property outright, rather than being in a complex, and have access to the street to let her in and out. My dear cat has always added to my rent as I've always had to have a garden wherever I am in London and that really does add to your rent! I wonder if she'd like living in a cube?

Moses2013

It's just called Cube type housing because it's modular, but you might want to check it out Cube 75 | Casas prefabricadas y modulares Cube


If it wasn't for the cat, I would have said you'd be better off to bite in the sour apple as Germans say. Reduce your rental costs and live in the crappiest place to really save hard until you actually have enough cash. There's no point of going to a place you won't like in a year and you end up with a property you'll never sell.

cricketman

Hmm

OK. A sub-100k property in Alhaurin or Coin would be absolute hell in terms of quality of life

You are likely to get an old damp and dark terrace house in an undesirable neighbourhood in one of the most depressed towns in Europe and all the depravation that comes with that. Go and take a look around the gypsy neighbourhoods in Alhaurin for example. Seriously, you want to live there?!

I seriously do not recommend this. You would be better off renting in a more desirable location. Rents are very low in Spain, no need to buy at all