Rosemary

Strange that so many Brits lived in Spain for years without complying with the rules regarding registering because according to you both all Brits are obsessed with seel out and strictly stick to the rules.

Rosemary

airways

Oh, I am sure there are plenty of wild brits as well, I am one of them, but that does not change the tribe mentality....

Mark604

Stamp or no stamp isn't so important as if your passport is swiped on entry or exit. I believe there is then a record of your details being accessed at a border. I'd like to know for sure if that is the case though.

EU.flag

That is only true if you only ever enter or exit Schengen through Spain and you have TIE.
Problems arise when you enter/exit Schengen through state other then Spain and your stamps dont add up.
Without residency card you could find yourself detained or sent back.

airways

Actually no......... When they scan your passport it reads the chip and displays the details on the screen so they can do a positive visual check and its then checked against wanted images but nothing is stored for border control purposes. The eGates do exactly the same thing except its the camera using AI to compare the images. Thats why you often get bounced as unreadable and if there is not an operator to check the image on the screen manually you have to go to a border guard.

This gets covered at our annual aviation security course. The purpose of ETIAS and EES is to rectify the lack of electronic tracking. The problems with rolling out an EU wide IT System.....

CamemBert

You mean national immigration services aren’t allowed to store that information, or simply that there isn’t currently an EU-wide database holding that information?

Joppa

From what I can gather through anecdotal evidence, some countries retain their immigration record of non-EU citizens, which may be shared (i.e. accessible by) some other countries. I think Germany keeps record, and is shared with France, among others. They are incomplete record, as some people first enter Germany from non-Schengen area but then leave Schengen through another country, and even if that country keeps record, it isn't matched with German record, as there is no Schengen-wide tracking of travellers. So ETIAS and EES represent the first attempt to track passengers into and out of Schengen, but there are still difficulties to iron out before implementation.

DLC

Spain already has an entry/exit database since 2016 if we believe Wikipedia.

airways

It is still not live. It is the ETIAS database that is being referred to in that article and its years behind schedule.

I guess leaving the information live is a good way of keeping people nervous and compliant......

astera

The entire Schengen system must store a whole lot more than than because when people are banned from one Schengen country then are banned from entering the entire area, and I don't think the system simply relies on peoples' photos as opposed to full personal details.

I also think they pretty much know when you've entered/exited the area previously because I got held up once for a minute as they couldn't figure out how I am exiting the Schengen area as they could not see data of me entering it.

CamemBert

if you’re banned, that information may be held in the Schengen Information System. That is only used for combating crime, not for ordinary immigration purposes. Others on this forum probably know more about the subject, but that is my understanding from fairly extensive reading about it.

Bomber Harris

ETIAS has been delayed a number of times but it is the future and will apply to all Schengen member states.
DLC is referring to the national database records that are maintained by 10 Schengen member states (including Spain) for third country citizens.
Whilst I would never consider Wikipedia to be a beacon of accuracy I can confirm from personal experience that at least one of the 10 Schengen member states listed in that article does indeed have such a national database and it was active in 2017.

Joppa

Yes, I have no doubt such databases exist and are active, but for immigration control they are of limited value until Schengen-wide database is developed and activated, which ETIAS will do. Such national database alone contains limited data, as passengers can enter and leave the national territory undetected when going through another Schengen state.

airways

I could tell you how to get around a Schengen ban if it wouldn't get my ass fired..... There is far less data on peoples movements held than you would believe. ETIAS and EES are the proposed solution that will create a single source of truth but are currently years behind delivery and still unlikely to happen in the near future. The people that did our list border security brief referred to it as trying to herd cats!!

CamemBert

I can think of at least three countries where that has happened to me or to people under my responsibility. Fortunately none of those countries are in the EU, where I agree it’s pretty unlikely.

Very interesting and useful thread, by the way.