Travelling in Schengen DOUBTS
Jan 28th 2022, 9:53 am
#16
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Re: Travelling in Schengen DOUBTS
In the end they always have discretion to stamp and discretion to not allow me enter. The most I can say is I don't agree with what he's done, but I would have be some kind of idiot to have a strop on the border because he's just done something which he's legally empowered to do.
Jan 28th 2022, 11:38 am
#17
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Re: Travelling in Schengen DOUBTS
An European Commission source said: "However, a member state may stamp the travel document of non-EU nationals holding a residence permit issued by the same member state, if such a possibility is provided under national law."
Real Decreto 557/2011, de 20 de abril, por el que se aprueba el Reglamento de la Ley Orgánica 4/2000, sobre derechos y libertades de los extranjeros en España y su integración social, tras su reforma por Ley Orgánica 2/2009:
Artículo 12. Forma de efectuar la entrada.
2. Si la documentación presentada fuera hallada conforme y no existe ninguna prohibición o impedimento para la entrada del titular, se estampará en el pasaporte o título de viaje el sello, signo o marca de control establecido, salvo que las leyes internas o los tratados internacionales en que España sea parte prevean la no estampación, con lo que, previa devolución de la documentación, quedará franco el paso al interior del país.
2. Si la documentación presentada fuera hallada conforme y no existe ninguna prohibición o impedimento para la entrada del titular, se estampará en el pasaporte o título de viaje el sello, signo o marca de control establecido, salvo que las leyes internas o los tratados internacionales en que España sea parte prevean la no estampación, con lo que, previa devolución de la documentación, quedará franco el paso al interior del país.
Article 14
Right of exit and of entry
1. Union citizens and United Kingdom nationals, their respective family members, and other persons, who reside in the territory of the host State in accordance with the conditions set out in this Title shall have the right to leave the host State and the right to enter it, as set out in Article 4(1) and the first subparagraph of Article 5(1) of Directive 2004/38/EC, with a valid passport or national identity card in the case of Union citizens and United Kingdom nationals, and with a valid passport in the case of their respective family members and other persons who are not Union citizens or United Kingdom nationals.
Five years after the end of the transition period, the host State may decide no longer to accept national identity cards for the purposes of entry to or exit from its territory if such cards do not include a chip that complies with the applicable International Civil Aviation Organisation standards related to biometric identification.
2. No exit visa, entry visa or equivalent formality shall be required of holders of a valid document issued in accordance with Article 18 or 26.
Right of exit and of entry
1. Union citizens and United Kingdom nationals, their respective family members, and other persons, who reside in the territory of the host State in accordance with the conditions set out in this Title shall have the right to leave the host State and the right to enter it, as set out in Article 4(1) and the first subparagraph of Article 5(1) of Directive 2004/38/EC, with a valid passport or national identity card in the case of Union citizens and United Kingdom nationals, and with a valid passport in the case of their respective family members and other persons who are not Union citizens or United Kingdom nationals.
Five years after the end of the transition period, the host State may decide no longer to accept national identity cards for the purposes of entry to or exit from its territory if such cards do not include a chip that complies with the applicable International Civil Aviation Organisation standards related to biometric identification.
2. No exit visa, entry visa or equivalent formality shall be required of holders of a valid document issued in accordance with Article 18 or 26.
Article 5
Right of entry
3. The host Member State shall not place an entry or exit stamp in the passport of family members who are not nationals of a Member State provided that they present the residence card provided for in Article 10.
Right of entry
3. The host Member State shall not place an entry or exit stamp in the passport of family members who are not nationals of a Member State provided that they present the residence card provided for in Article 10.
So it seems is like Spain is within its rights to stamp passports belonging to their own non-EU residents. There you go, I learnt something new today too. I'm going to be even less bothered about passport stamps than I was before.
Last edited by DLC; Jan 28th 2022 at 11:48 am.
Jan 28th 2022, 11:55 am
#18
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Re: Travelling in Schengen DOUBTS
OK thanks for the info. I have currently 5 years under my belt as of the time of writing, but when I got my TIE I didn't, so it's the 5 year document which applies. I´m not sure what a WA document is, however. Does it stand for something? I know about the 6 months in the year rule, but according to this person (who was a lawyer specialising in this field), the collective 10 months/5 year rule also applies. So if, I was to be away for 6 months in one year, I would only have 4 months left to "spend" in the remaining four years, from what I understood.
I assume that if stamping is abolished they have some other way of checking it, electronically, etc.
Thanks for the info so far guys!
I assume that if stamping is abolished they have some other way of checking it, electronically, etc.
Thanks for the info so far guys!
https://ec.europa.eu/info/strategy/r...l-agreement_en
It's up to you to decide who to trust, legal document published on europa.eu and gov.uk, or your "specialist".
Well, stamping will be replaced with anal probing. :-)
Kidding, new bio-metric scan system EES will be used.
Jan 28th 2022, 12:51 pm
#19
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Jan 28th 2022, 12:53 pm
#20
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Jan 28th 2022, 12:55 pm
#21
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Re: Travelling in Schengen DOUBTS
Jan 28th 2022, 1:01 pm
#22
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Re: Travelling in Schengen DOUBTS
The Practical Handbook for Border Guards 2019 Annex says the following.
6.2.
No entry or exit stamp must be affixed in the following cases:
a) to the travel documents of nationals of the EU Member States, Norway, Iceland, Liechtenstein and Switzerland;
b) to the travel documents of Heads of State and dignitaries whose arrival has been officially announced in advance through diplomatic channels;
c) to pilots' licences or the certificates of aircraft crew members;
d) to the travel documents of seamen who are present within the territory of a Schengen State only when their ship calls in and in the area of the port of call;
e) to the travel documents of crew and passengers of cruise ships who are not subject to border checks, in those cases provided for in point 2, Section IV;
f) to documents enabling nationals of Andorra, Monaco and San Marino to cross the border;
g) to documents of border residents enjoying a local border traffic regime (point 3, Section II).
h) to the travel documents of crews of passengers and goods trains on international connections;
i) to the travel documents of nationals of third countries who present a residence card provided for in Directive 2004/38/EC.
j) being the salient section!
https://ec.europa.eu/home-affairs/sy...7131-annex.pdf
6.2.
No entry or exit stamp must be affixed in the following cases:
a) to the travel documents of nationals of the EU Member States, Norway, Iceland, Liechtenstein and Switzerland;
b) to the travel documents of Heads of State and dignitaries whose arrival has been officially announced in advance through diplomatic channels;
c) to pilots' licences or the certificates of aircraft crew members;
d) to the travel documents of seamen who are present within the territory of a Schengen State only when their ship calls in and in the area of the port of call;
e) to the travel documents of crew and passengers of cruise ships who are not subject to border checks, in those cases provided for in point 2, Section IV;
f) to documents enabling nationals of Andorra, Monaco and San Marino to cross the border;
g) to documents of border residents enjoying a local border traffic regime (point 3, Section II).
h) to the travel documents of crews of passengers and goods trains on international connections;
i) to the travel documents of nationals of third countries who present a residence card provided for in Directive 2004/38/EC.
j) being the salient section!
https://ec.europa.eu/home-affairs/sy...7131-annex.pdf
Jan 28th 2022, 2:27 pm
#24
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Re: Travelling in Schengen DOUBTS
Then why did the EU spokesman talk about national law? You can see the laws I've cited. There's nothing special in the WA about passport stamping which says it must not be done and Spain's national law says they will do it for all non-EU citizens unless an EU directive says otherwise. An EU Commission recommendation is not an EU directive or national law.
Jan 28th 2022, 2:59 pm
#25
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Re: Travelling in Schengen DOUBTS
Hey everyone, this info has been very helpful. As regards the stamping/not stamping debate here, I suppose my main concern is the amount of time I'm allowed to be out of the country. It's been said here that people holding residencies granted under the WA agreement (thank you to EU.flag for clarifying the meaning of that for this dummy), can be out of the country for 6 months of the year and the 10 months/5 years doesn't apply.
My card says specifically it was granted under the WA, and the 6 months/year is fine for me as I very much doubt I'd be out of Spain for longer than that. So, they can stamp til the cows come home if that's the case.
As long as I don't get a nasty surprise when it comes to the renewal I don't mind. The 10 months/5 years thing is obviously quite restrictive, so even though I wouldn't be gallivanting through Schengen for super long stretches it'd be nice to have a bit of flexibility.
My card says specifically it was granted under the WA, and the 6 months/year is fine for me as I very much doubt I'd be out of Spain for longer than that. So, they can stamp til the cows come home if that's the case.
As long as I don't get a nasty surprise when it comes to the renewal I don't mind. The 10 months/5 years thing is obviously quite restrictive, so even though I wouldn't be gallivanting through Schengen for super long stretches it'd be nice to have a bit of flexibility.
Jan 28th 2022, 3:01 pm
#26
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Re: Travelling in Schengen DOUBTS
Hey everyone, this info has been very helpful. As regards the stamping/not stamping debate here, I suppose my main concern is the amount of time I'm allowed to be out of the country. It's been said here that people holding residencies granted under the WA agreement (thank you to EU.flag for clarifying the meaning of that for this dummy), can be out of the country for 6 months of the year and the 10 months/5 years doesn't apply.
My card says specifically it was granted under the WA, and the 6 months/year is fine for me as I very much doubt I'd be out of Spain for longer than that. So, they can stamp til the cows come home if that's the case.
As long as I don't get a nasty surprise when it comes to the renewal I don't mind. The 10 months/5 years thing is obviously quite restrictive, so even though I wouldn't be gallivanting through Schengen for super long stretches it'd be nice to have a bit of flexibility.
My card says specifically it was granted under the WA, and the 6 months/year is fine for me as I very much doubt I'd be out of Spain for longer than that. So, they can stamp til the cows come home if that's the case.
As long as I don't get a nasty surprise when it comes to the renewal I don't mind. The 10 months/5 years thing is obviously quite restrictive, so even though I wouldn't be gallivanting through Schengen for super long stretches it'd be nice to have a bit of flexibility.
Jan 29th 2022, 9:38 am
#27
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Re: Travelling in Schengen DOUBTS
Jan 29th 2022, 11:00 am
#28
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Re: Travelling in Schengen DOUBTS
This reminds me of an ex military couple I knew years ago. They spent their time in Spain constantly looking for new rules to follow, it was almost like they were frightened of freedom. Needless to say they didn't last and are long gone.
Jan 29th 2022, 12:55 pm
#29
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Re: Travelling in Schengen DOUBTS
Jan 29th 2022, 1:14 pm
#30
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Re: Travelling in Schengen DOUBTS
LOL, its true, the British are obsessed by rules. They will always read the hardest possible interpretation of anything and then gold plate them just to be sure. They will sign up for every rule possible that makes their life difficult and follow them obsessively. The rest of the world just goes "meh!" and deals with it if they actually ever need to and ignore it the rest of the time. I find it bizarre how they choose to live in fear of everything, it must be soooooo tiring....... Me, I just ignore it all......
They don't seem to mind liars though!!!