Reports I have read indicate that the automatic braking system was deleted from the last upgrade = TO SAVE MONEY =
explain that to the family of the dead

Newspaper reports are not 100% sure on this. But if so I agree, and it is not up to me to explain . It is up to the judicial system.
If it was the deletion of the safety system that also defeats your previous posting that it was the fault of the driver.
I have always posted that this accident was down the the bastard train design.

As is normally the case with both train and aircraft accidents there is rarely one single cause responsible, but usually a combination of circumstances and errors.
I think that applies to this incident more so than many others.

Nope, the safety system is a backup in case the driver gets carried away with his speeding
The driver is in control of the train in the same way as you are when driving a car

Perhaps you should post here a timetable of when you are out driving a car so we can all get off the roads as you seem to think the driver has no responsibility.

As to "bastard train design", you should know that many things - cars, aircraft, ships as well as trains, all start off with an original design and develop as time goes by.
HMS Illustrious started off as a fighter/bomber carrier, now she is a helicopter carrier - it doesn't make it a bastard design.
And how come that "bastard train design" had negotiated that bend many many times before without falling off the tracks.

Old Spanish Proverb - More Haste Less Speed keeps trains on the tracks.

Ancient Chinese proverb,.................More Booze, Less Brains.

You know Dimino, there is another Chinese proverb: Don’t get the facts about public transport and private cars muddled up.
It was certainly a Bastard train is what it is it was a retrograde design not a leap forward in technology.

One final note: Your words/views on my driving are insulting. You know nothing about me, my driving history or my views on driving. I would like you to withdraw them please.

As DD has pointed out, accidents like this are usually a combination of misfortunes.

I believe that the driver has the ultimate responsibility to drive in an appropriate manner, ie sober, going at a safe speed, not showing of, etc be in a car, train, plane or boat.

While the design or the lack of safety devices could be blamed in some part, the driver was bombing along at an incredible speed on a bend.

He was not inexperienced, so my opinion is, he was simply speeding. Was the Concordia badly designed? Or was it human error?

Going too fast or too close to hazards is the fault of the person being paid to take his passengers on a safe journey.

A second cousin of mine died in a motorbike crash when I was about 9.

The details are very hazy now, but as I remember the conclusion was that the bike became unstable when going over 100mph or something like that.

well considering that was 30 MPH over the speed limit, was the design of the bike at fault? I don´t think so.

If he had not been going at such a speed, he might be alive today and posting on BE.

I loved him so much, and hated him so much, he needlessly destroyed a lot of lives.

Most accidents are not caused by the design, they are caused by IDIOTS. (they are still idiots even though they maybe our loved ones)

other than warning you to be careful in what you say otherwise Casa Santo Estevo may take exception - you are really confirming what I have said earlier.

when in a position of trust you have to carry out your duties accordingly in a manner that reflects that trust. you have the lives of others in your hands.

if it could be said that it wasn't human error but was actually the fault of the train/car/aircraft/penny-farthing/submarine then perhaps such devices should be banned from production.
but it has to be remembered that "human error" can apply to not only the person "driving" the item but also those who carryout out the building and production and maintenance.
AFAIK only aircraft have fully documented service histories, records being retained of not only what item was used but also traceability of the component parts to the point where they came out of the ground.
and the people fitting and adjusting such equipment have to be certified to do the work.

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Totally, totally, totally.

One can only do ones duty as a driver of a train when one has the proper tolls to do it with.
Another nail in the coffin to those who say the tools were install and everything should be put the blame on the shoulders of the driver.
RENFE's insurer stance
All of these facts have been reported, in the links I have given before.

Dom, buy not removing that attack on me says more about you than I could ever write on here. I am sadden you did not take any action.

What came first Public or Private Transport ??

a leap forward in technology isnt always the safest answer, in many instances it is the safe answer to not make a leap into the dark.
what your personal feelings about the standard of manufacture of the train is clouding the issue.
people die in cars that travel too fast and the driver can't keep it on the road - that doesn't make the cars "bastards". It does say something about the driver - who has their lives in his/her hands.

As to my impugning your driving - i would say the same to anyone who wants to deny that the speed of the vehicle is not in the hands of the driver.
you are in denial if you cannot see and accept that fact and surely by any definition would not be safe on the roads or the railroads.

Just think what would have happened if there had been another full train passing at the same time on the adjacent track.

Your reply shows show how little of the facts you know about this train accident.
I really do not know what to make of your responses on this forum.
You attacking my driving skills, especially when we have never met me, seems that you want to divert this argument away from the true facts about this case. Mainly because you have not got any facts about this accident which backs your claim about the driver. You are beginning to sound like one song hero who only knows the chorus. “It is the train diver, it was the train driver”.
However if you want to talk about cars then lets put this in prospective. Car designs (just like this train design) which are not being up to scratch. Have you ever read about the Ford Pinto or the Toyota Prius?
Or how about the many other recalls because of poor design or installation of faulty equipment means modifications to save lives. Are accidents which have resulted from these problems ever been the drivers fault?
Just look at some of the reasons for recalls in the UK alone: Unbelievable.

If I have a single record on the box it is Train Driver speeding at 200kph in an 80kph zone.
You have a single record on the box "They used a Bastard Train"
If you were my driver and you walked (and if you didn't) from an accident I was killed in I promise you I would hound you to hell and back for eternity for causing my life to end abruptly with so many things left to do if it was because you were driving too fast and kept ignoring the speed to answer mundane telephone messages about which side of the train would be arriving at the platform. In fact I would include the conductor for asking such stupid questions.

get a life, all products - even washing machines, toasters as well as Boeing 747's have recalls, manufacturers alerts etc etc.
Its called Life in the Modern Age.

And if you are so worried about your speeding - slow down.

kind regards
D

Maybe not all accidents are the drivers fault, but you must admit that his facebook page says a lot about what kind of a driver he is.

So much was he into bragging, that he even took photos of his high speed
showing on the speedometer and posted comments about being fined,for his followers to see.

That is not the act of a responsible driver in my view, and although it is generlly accepted "innocent until proven guilty" is the rightway, after seeing
his complete disregard for his passengers safety displayed (by himself on FB)
with his shocking photos, then of course the public will condem him before the trial.

After seeing the facebook pics and comments, i feel that he is guilty until he proves himself innocent.

Talk about shooting yourself in the foot, he had a Gerald Ratner moment thinking that the public are fools, but with terrible results.

Yes good point, we had a baby buggy recalled years ago, a danger of losing fingers.

And all products are meat to be used in a sensible save way even if they are not faulty.

the thing is that the buggy manufacturer took responsibility and advertised the fact - IIRC they took some pushing.

as to cars - in another dimension they would be treated like drugs and banned due to the irresponsible use.
so many people die from this or that and they are banned.
cars are just ignored, and yet they are the same as knife, gun etc, they are used as a deadly weapon to kill people by intent as well as by accident - but most of the accidents are nothing to do with a "bastard" design but do do with the "bastard" behind the wheel who has no concept of speed, space and orientation.
they are a lethal weapon but ignored by the authorities due to the revenue they generate every year. Do away with cars and there wouldn't be the money sloshing around to build the trains this thread is all about.

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