It just gets better and better, you and your "circles" must be nearly orgasmic at the prospect, getting there quicker and not having to put up with the working class (I will take that as you mean scumbag) Spanish folks.

I for one would not class you as middle class.

I would say you are first class.












A first class tit.

That's one of the main reasons why it shall never make a profit, the masses cannot afford it.

which is what they told Stephenson, and imposed a 4mph speed limit with a man walking in front, because "the masses" won't be able to cope with the speed.

Thank you, somebody who hasnt got a complex about class

The AVE benefits the middle classes because they are the ones who travel the most for business and for leisure - and are also the ones who will pay a premium for comfort - and for being able to work while you travel etc

An average working class Spanish family wont pay 400 euros on the AVE when it will cost a third of that (or less) in the car - and maybe even less on the bus

the average working class Spanish family won't be travelling that far by any means, they will work locally - IF THEY HAVE A JOB.

Well yes, that was the point I was making.

Although many will still take their annual trip to the Coast during July/August, though I doubt they will be going on the AVE

NO C'man that isn't the point you are making - the point is that you see the AVE is a luxury means of travel for the landed gentry of Spain and woe betide the common man using it and getting the seats dirty.

When I was younger the railway was the only way for the working man to get to Barry Island, Clacton, Blackpool, Bournemouth, Worthing etc etc
They couldn't afford to own a car and travelled to work by bike or walked.
Nowadays even the unemployed in Spain have a car.

`

That just isn't true though is it? I can afford it. And I'm definitely one of the 'masses'. Financially anyway ;-)

It's similar to UK rail fares. Peak fares are exhorbitant, off peak reasonable. C'man made the point originally that supports my position that the money spent on the AVE would be better spent on doing other infrastructure projects that the "masses" can enjoy.
Anyway off to Reading by train now, £36 is expensive but the M25 on a Friday?
I don't think so.

like you I am "a mass", (well I think that's what the BH said) and i want to travel on the AVE, after a couple of TALGO trips from Seville 5 or 6 years ago.

but I don't have a line yet, although most of the bed is down and some of the track has been delivered (but still no positive statement on the station), so have to travel to Antequera or similar

so lets stop the bickering, lets finish what has been started and be thankful to the EU for their funding of the project.

Lucky old you!
Por qué el AVE es un tren para ricos
Unlike you, three out of four Spanish regard it as "muy caro" and is a train for the rich. Pastor herself recognises it is expensive and many Spanish have not been able to afford to travel on it. It is described as a luxury product within the reach of the rich minority only. It's laughable that Ryanair can transport eight million more passengers than the whole of the Spanish rail network. One has their pricing right, one very badly wrong.
http://www.eldiario.es/economia/AVE-..._82941811.html

...what do the Spanish know compared to a couple of ex-pats. The newspaper must be wrong

Aggy's article is from 2012, prior to the new pricing structure that has resulted in a major increase in numbers. You and Aggy are surely not trying to deceive us are you???

Spanish rail company RENFE gains 1.7 million extra passengers after introduction of new fares scheme (spanish)
http://www.eleconomista.es/empresas-...o-del-AVE.html

I especially love the comments from the Spanish themselves (what do they know?) I've always said it's a financial black hole, someone agrees. Another comment, it's paid for by everyone, enjoyed by a few. Some revealing facts and figures supplied by the readers.
El AVE es un agujero negro irresoluble.
El AVE es un tren para ricos, yuppies, cargos políticos, empresarios y arribistas hecho con el dinero de todos.