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Toros - tide turning?

Toros - tide turning?

Old Apr 29th 2010, 11:40 am
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Default Toros - tide turning?

On holiday in Madrid & Galicia over Xmas I noticed newspaper articles and talk in the media about about Catalunya taking an anti-bullfighting stance after recent debate, is this just a 'we are not Spain' position yet again or are they genuinely concerned about animal cruelty issues?

In your part of Spain what opinions have you heard?

When I was a student in Pamplona back in the 80s I wouldn't say I liked it but did get to understand the attraction of bullfighting. For what it's worth my view now is that it's an appalling 'spectacle', I won't call it 'form of art' or even 'sport' although you can read about it in Marca and when I visted the footie part of their website last weekend a video of the Jose Tomas goring popped up at me!


What's the latest on his condition?


http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010...nia-jose-tomas

Last edited by expatasia; Apr 29th 2010 at 11:42 am.
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Old Apr 29th 2010, 7:17 pm
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Default Re: Toros - tide turning?

Originally Posted by expatasia
On holiday in Madrid & Galicia over Xmas I noticed newspaper articles and talk in the media about about Catalunya taking an anti-bullfighting stance after recent debate, is this just a 'we are not Spain' position yet again or are they genuinely concerned about animal cruelty issues?

In your part of Spain what opinions have you heard?

When I was a student in Pamplona back in the 80s I wouldn't say I liked it but did get to understand the attraction of bullfighting. For what it's worth my view now is that it's an appalling 'spectacle', I won't call it 'form of art' or even 'sport' although you can read about it in Marca and when I visted the footie part of their website last weekend a video of the Jose Tomas goring popped up at me!


What's the latest on his condition?


http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010...nia-jose-tomas
Jose Tomas has gotten better, he's not going to die, but they say this kind of injury normally ends their career.

Parts of Spain have never been into bullfighting, just depends on the region. In Catalunya it's thought of as a Madrid thing or for the many tens of thousands of migrants that came from the South.

Bull fighting isnt as popular as it used to be, you can see that because most of the village bull rings are hardly ever used. However, it still has an important core following in Andalucia and Castilla/Madrid.

Let them get on with it I say, it is an artform even though the death of an animal is involved, I've been convinced that the death of the bull is an honourable death rather than a violent one . If and when they decide not to do it anymore should be up to the people who do it.
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Old Apr 29th 2010, 7:22 pm
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Default Re: Toros - tide turning?

More people go to the carboot sale at Torremolinos than the bullfight.
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Old Apr 29th 2010, 7:42 pm
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Default Re: Toros - tide turning?

Originally Posted by cricketman
Jose Tomas has gotten better, he's not going to die, but they say this kind of injury normally ends their career.

Parts of Spain have never been into bullfighting, just depends on the region. In Catalunya it's thought of as a Madrid thing or for the many tens of thousands of migrants that came from the South.

Bull fighting isnt as popular as it used to be, you can see that because most of the village bull rings are hardly ever used. However, it still has an important core following in Andalucia and Castilla/Madrid.

Let them get on with it I say, it is an artform even though the death of an animal is involved, I've been convinced that the death of the bull is an honourable death rather than a violent one . If and when they decide not to do it anymore should be up to the people who do it.
How the hell is it an art form and just exacly what is your idea of a violent death if having several spears stabbed into you, taunted then a sword thrust into you isn't violent???
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Old Apr 29th 2010, 7:50 pm
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Default Re: Toros - tide turning?

Originally Posted by Madridboy
How the hell is it an art form and just exacly what is your idea of a violent death if having several spears stabbed into you, taunted then a sword thrust into you isn't violent???
You're entitled to your view and me on mine. There are so many worse things going on in the world which nobody talks about banning.

There is enough intolerance in the world. Let them get on with it, if a particular region votes for a ban on bullfighting then great, if not, then great aswell
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Old Apr 29th 2010, 9:14 pm
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Default Re: Toros - tide turning?

Originally Posted by cricketman
You're entitled to your view and me on mine. There are so many worse things going on in the world which nobody talks about banning.

There is enough intolerance in the world. Let them get on with it, if a particular region votes for a ban on bullfighting then great, if not, then great aswell
Well, first off, Madridboy has it bang to rights. I watched a matador who had obviously had enough training to qualify as a lousy butcher, stick the bull half a dozen times with his sword and it just stood there daring him to have another go and show just how useless he was.

There is no heroism in any conflict where the outcome is almost inevitable, unless it is applied to the bull.

However, Cricketman has a point. The excuse that there are worse things going on is a spurious one, a bit like saying 'There's folk worse off than you', which basically means 'Screw you I don't care'.

Banning it outright would IMO simply popularise it with certain people who would then hold it up as something to be defended if you are a patriot. Not methinks what we need.

The best way is to gradually bend public opinion towards the point where it is no longer seen as positive, and then it will slowly die the death.

I like the people who run and jump over the bulls. Now that takes guts.
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Old Apr 29th 2010, 10:05 pm
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Default Re: Toros - tide turning?

Originally Posted by bil
Well, first off, Madridboy has it bang to rights. I watched a matador who had obviously had enough training to qualify as a lousy butcher, stick the bull half a dozen times with his sword and it just stood there daring him to have another go and show just how useless he was.

There is no heroism in any conflict where the outcome is almost inevitable, unless it is applied to the bull.

However, Cricketman has a point. The excuse that there are worse things going on is a spurious one, a bit like saying 'There's folk worse off than you', which basically means 'Screw you I don't care'.

Banning it outright would IMO simply popularise it with certain people who would then hold it up as something to be defended if you are a patriot. Not methinks what we need.

The best way is to gradually bend public opinion towards the point where it is no longer seen as positive, and then it will slowly die the death.

I like the people who run and jump over the bulls. Now that takes guts.

Fair enough, but a lot of foreigners miss the point about bullfighting. The matador/torero is not meant to be a hero. Noone sees him as a hero. In fact this isnt even a fight (in Spanish language). Bullfighting is an English word which implies a winner and loser, there is no such thing in the "corridas de toros" i.e. literally bull running!

Corridas de toros are about nobility and art in the journey to the death. It can be seen as a dance of death where the toreros/picadores etc help the bull on its way to die a noble and celebrated death.

A much more noble and celebrated death than being electrically stunned in a windowless cowshed or growing up in a 50 square cm prison and never seeing natural light in the 45 days of torrid, insipid torturous life. Yet still 90% of us all eat animal meat without worrying about all that.

People should grow up a bit!
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Old Apr 29th 2010, 10:18 pm
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Default Re: Toros - tide turning?

Originally Posted by bil
Well, first off, Madridboy has it bang to rights. I watched a matador who had obviously had enough training to qualify as a lousy butcher, stick the bull half a dozen times with his sword and it just stood there daring him to have another go and show just how useless he was.

There is no heroism in any conflict where the outcome is almost inevitable, unless it is applied to the bull.

However, Cricketman has a point. The excuse that there are worse things going on is a spurious one, a bit like saying 'There's folk worse off than you', which basically means 'Screw you I don't care'.

Banning it outright would IMO simply popularise it with certain people who would then hold it up as something to be defended if you are a patriot. Not methinks what we need.

The best way is to gradually bend public opinion towards the point where it is no longer seen as positive, and then it will slowly die the death.

I like the people who run and jump over the bulls. Now that takes guts.
Yes I agree..it will lose it's popularity over time. Hopefully each new generation will grow to find other more interesting past-times and entertainment.
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Old Apr 29th 2010, 10:22 pm
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Default Re: Toros - tide turning?

Originally Posted by manamama
Yes I agree..it will lose it's popularity over time. Hopefully each new generation will grow to find other more interesting past-times and entertainment.
You could say the same about Formula 1 racing. The amount of money that they spend each year. If they spent that on child poverty, then could save the lives of 1 million children a year.

Not to mention the millions of tons of CO2 they release into the air each year.

What would you rather see, 2 hours of a car going round a track or that 10,000 children are given access to clean drinking water?

If human beings were good people we wouldn't live in such a cr*p and injust world.
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Old Apr 29th 2010, 10:34 pm
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Default Re: Toros - tide turning?

Originally Posted by cricketman
You could say the same about Formula 1 racing. The amount of money that they spend each year. If they spent that on child poverty, then could save the lives of 1 million children a year.

Not to mention the millions of tons of CO2 they release into the air each year.

What would you rather see, 2 hours of a car going round a track or that 10,000 children are given access to clean drinking water?

If human beings were good people we wouldn't live in such a cr*p and injust world.
not to mention the obscene amounts of money spent on the prima donnas that call themselves footballers ... don't get me started!!!!
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Old Apr 29th 2010, 10:41 pm
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Default Re: Toros - tide turning?

Originally Posted by cricketman
You could say the same about Formula 1 racing. The amount of money that they spend each year. If they spent that on child poverty, then could save the lives of 1 million children a year.

Not to mention the millions of tons of CO2 they release into the air each year.

What would you rather see, 2 hours of a car going round a track or that 10,000 children are given access to clean drinking water?

If human beings were good people we wouldn't live in such a cr*p and injust world.

Yes shocking....let hope each new generation becomes more caring to others and not focus on money, sport and big business.
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Old Apr 29th 2010, 11:16 pm
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Default Re: Toros - tide turning?

Originally Posted by cricketman
Fair enough, but a lot of foreigners miss the point about bullfighting. The matador/torero is not meant to be a hero. Noone sees him as a hero. In fact this isnt even a fight (in Spanish language). Bullfighting is an English word which implies a winner and loser, there is no such thing in the "corridas de toros" i.e. literally bull running!

Corridas de toros are about nobility and art in the journey to the death. It can be seen as a dance of death where the toreros/picadores etc help the bull on its way to die a noble and celebrated death.

A much more noble and celebrated death than being electrically stunned in a windowless cowshed or growing up in a 50 square cm prison and never seeing natural light in the 45 days of torrid, insipid torturous life. Yet still 90% of us all eat animal meat without worrying about all that.

People should grow up a bit!
I think your knowledge of cattle and cattle rearing could be written on the back of a postage stamp.Idiot.
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Old Apr 29th 2010, 11:18 pm
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Default Re: Toros - tide turning?

Originally Posted by Rotor
I think your knowledge of cattle and cattle rearing could be written on the back of a postage stamp.Idiot.
Could say the same about your knowledge of Spain
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Old Apr 29th 2010, 11:36 pm
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Default Re: Toros - tide turning?

Originally Posted by cricketman
Could say the same about your knowledge of Spain

You could say but it would not be true ,Ive lived here a lot more years than you and have learnt a lot more as well it appears, I dont wear blinker`s either, Like I said ,idiot.
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Old Apr 30th 2010, 12:01 am
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Default Re: Toros - tide turning?

If anybody is truely interested in joining the anti-bullfighting movement here in Spain, rather than just talking about it, this organisation http://www.cacma.org/ is very active in organising petitions, denuncias and demonstrations. I joined in several of their demos last year and was pleasantly surprised at the number who turned out every time. 99.9% Spanish, all ages and all "classes". The first big demo of the year will be taking place in Sevilla very soon.
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