TOLL BOOTHS ON BORDER
Jul 17th 2012, 10:24 am
#46
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,675
Re: TOLL BOOTHS ON BORDER
The Easytoll charges I incurred on 10th July hit my account on 17th July. The Xchange rate was 1.2295 - so not too bad. No additional charges from Visa or the bank. So it all looks good.
Looks like the best bet for your hire car is to bring a set of cloned UK plates and attach them to your hire car for the duration
Looks like the best bet for your hire car is to bring a set of cloned UK plates and attach them to your hire car for the duration
Jul 18th 2012, 9:03 pm
#47
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2004
Location: Shenfield, Essex
Posts: 615
Re: TOLL BOOTHS ON BORDER
So, this is how it worked for me. Rented car at Faro, used A22 to Esuri and a couple of days later went to the post office and paid €5.30. Happy with that as the N125 is not my idea of fun. That was the simple bit, but as we all know the return trip can't be paid in advance. No problem, because one of our esteemed contributors offered to go and pay the toll for me, on the basis I buy him a beer next time round. I now owe him a few beers, as when he went to pay, the fee was €10.60. Yes, they had rented my car again on the same day I returned it, and that lucky individual had his trip on the A22 added to my bill. Brilliant system.
It works the other way; rented my place to someone and he popped into the post office yesterday to pay his €5.30. He was hit with a double fee as as he had picked up a rental car which must have logged a trip to Faro which wasn't paid.
Who was it that said "simples"
It works the other way; rented my place to someone and he popped into the post office yesterday to pay his €5.30. He was hit with a double fee as as he had picked up a rental car which must have logged a trip to Faro which wasn't paid.
Who was it that said "simples"
Jul 19th 2012, 11:56 am
#48
Forum Regular
Joined: Oct 2005
Location: Northampton
Posts: 291
Re: TOLL BOOTHS ON BORDER
So, this is how it worked for me. Rented car at Faro, used A22 to Esuri and a couple of days later went to the post office and paid €5.30. Happy with that as the N125 is not my idea of fun. That was the simple bit, but as we all know the return trip can't be paid in advance. No problem, because one of our esteemed contributors offered to go and pay the toll for me, on the basis I buy him a beer next time round. I now owe him a few beers, as when he went to pay, the fee was €10.60. Yes, they had rented my car again on the same day I returned it, and that lucky individual had his trip on the A22 added to my bill. Brilliant system.
It works the other way; rented my place to someone and he popped into the post office yesterday to pay his €5.30. He was hit with a double fee as as he had picked up a rental car which must have logged a trip to Faro which wasn't paid.
Who was it that said "simples"
It works the other way; rented my place to someone and he popped into the post office yesterday to pay his €5.30. He was hit with a double fee as as he had picked up a rental car which must have logged a trip to Faro which wasn't paid.
Who was it that said "simples"
Jul 19th 2012, 7:55 pm
#49
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2004
Location: Shenfield, Essex
Posts: 615
Re: TOLL BOOTHS ON BORDER
There's nothing wrong with the N125 as far as I am concerned. Your on holiday. You've got time on your hands. It only adds maybe 30 minutes to the trip from Faro to the Spanish border. There's more hassle finding a way to pay the tolls than driving the old road. Boycot-Boycott-Boycott!!!!
Jul 20th 2012, 6:22 am
#50
BE Positive
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,980
Re: TOLL BOOTHS ON BORDER
However this would mean that you must have a credit card to use the the toll road. Many people do not have CCs; cannot afford one; do not have sufficient credit rating etc etc so you would have to have another system to run in parallel anyway and it would be illegal to discriminate.
The Portugal News said that the government claimed that the roads did not have enough room to install proper toll plazas at every junction and that it would cost too much.
The Portugal News said that the government claimed that the roads did not have enough room to install proper toll plazas at every junction and that it would cost too much.
Every renter HAS to have a credit card and the transponders already link to a bank account. Many (most?) people have a credit card, many debit cards also work. So we have systems in place to access both bank accounts and credit cards. Having a method to access either with numberplate recognition would make things easier (and cheaper - No transponders). There is already a way to do no-plate recognition with a credit card, but only for foreign cars. I say do it both Portuguese and holidaymakers, as long as there was a way to switch on and off the payment details. With a PO/Payshop alternative.
With tourism being so important - I think its crazy that the government didn't think this through.
Look at the reaction on the forum immediately it was announced -we knew straight away that this was a problem and all we predicted has come to light. Proper analysis of the problem would have created a better solution. But of course we are talking about 'big government' here - should I be surprised that they cocked it up!! I am OK to pay the tolls as long as the system isn't going to bite me in the backside and ruin great memories well after Ive got back with a fine.
Its also crazy that the rental companies haven't thought it through. And in this example you will see that they have been a bit 'economical' with the explanation, you have to dig through their website to get the answer (Details below my sign-off)
Recently good friends came to visit - had a great time. We discussed tolls and they said the rental company had said they would pass on the bill to them. So they didn't worry. Strictly true - but cleverly worded. However I got suspicious and researched it further for them and sent the email below my sign off: Here I will explain what I did:
I went to a PO with a native Portuguese speaker to try and pay and reverse any fine, even willing to pay any late charge. My friend even authorised me to pay the fine as she was worried that with all the admin needed, with government and renter, they could be late fine payers when the envelope landed on their doorstep - and they worried about having a fine on the fine!!!! The system showed no usage beyond the pay - period. So we were stuck. They gave an email address (sure that will work!!) and a special SMS number - but we failed. Our friends will get a fine now - and hope that there isn't a late payment fine on the fine!
Great way to end a holiday - with these worries. Remember someone posted a bill of somewhere around 300Euros for a small toll.
We now hear from AndyS that you have to pay the whole bill when you go to a PO/Payshop. So you cant select your trips EVEN if you are on time.
This was predictable and a mess..... email to my friend below...
Jon (glued to the soapbox
)Email to friend who rented from xxxx. My comments in normal text - renters comments italicised + maybe highlighted in addition.
I was checking the toll situation and realised that there was a 'clever' wording on the xxxx site. Details below.
Im sending you this as if you want me to go to a post office and pay this and maybe pay a late charge as opposed to a fine I would do it..... I just need the no-plate of your car.
Sorry for this hassle and I hate to cause a problem, but would be happy to help to reduce (or eliminate) any problem...
It says this:
If the payment for the use of the A.22 has not been made, the rental car company is obliged by law to provide details of the renter/driver of the hire vehicle to the TOLL collection agency.
The customer will then be billed to his/her home address for payment of TOLLS on the A.22
This is also what you've been told.
However they have carefully not mentioned extra charges.
Reading further down
It's better not use the A22 on last day of holiday because you have no way of paying. AND.....
NON-PAYMENT:
In the event where the customer doesn't go to one of these Pay-shops or Post Offices to pay the TOLL, the rental car company ( xxxx) will receive notification of the value of the outstanding TOLL that has to be paid for that date on the vehicle. We will then provide the customer's details and a copy of the Rental Agreement to the toll's company and they will issue an INVOICE to the renter at his/her home address.
But only at the end do they get to the meat of the matter....
To avoid TOLL charges is to use the EN 125 - specially on your last two or three days of your holidays as you will not be able to pay so will certainly receive bill at home with an extra fee.
Last edited by Jon-Bxl; Jul 20th 2012 at 6:35 am.
Jul 20th 2012, 6:46 am
#51
BE Positive
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,980
Re: TOLL BOOTHS ON BORDER
There's nothing wrong with the N125 as far as I am concerned. Your on holiday. You've got time on your hands. It only adds maybe 30 minutes to the trip from Faro to the Spanish border. There's more hassle finding a way to pay the tolls than driving the old road. Boycot-Boycott-Boycott!!!!
Boycott is an option of course, but I'm more concerned that people wont come in the first place, on the other threads we have people saying that they wont come until there is a good way for renters ..... Portugal needs its tourists, not millions spent on special toll areas (after the fact) and salaries of people to explain the mess to foreigners.
Its bloody awful for the locals too... lets not forget them.
But you're right use the 125. I think up to Tavira there's no real difference.
In the example above of our friends they were going to the airport at 4am and just wanted to get home. Taking the 125 means that you have to allow for potential delays, something no-one wants to worry about when going home.
Wanna buy some soap???
Jon
Jul 20th 2012, 6:03 pm
#52
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,675
Re: TOLL BOOTHS ON BORDER
Hi Mike Good point about the CC.... however there is an alternative - go to a payshop / post office if you don't have one.
Every renter HAS to have a credit card and the transponders already link to a bank account. Many (most?) people have a credit card, many debit cards also work. So we have systems in place to access both bank accounts and credit cards. Having a method to access either with numberplate recognition would make things easier (and cheaper - No transponders). There is already a way to do no-plate recognition with a credit card, but only for foreign cars. I say do it both Portuguese and holidaymakers, as long as there was a way to switch on and off the payment details. With a PO/Payshop alternative.
With tourism being so important - I think its crazy that the government didn't think this through.
Look at the reaction on the forum immediately it was announced -we knew straight away that this was a problem and all we predicted has come to light. Proper analysis of the problem would have created a better solution. But of course we are talking about 'big government' here - should I be surprised that they cocked it up!! I am OK to pay the tolls as long as the system isn't going to bite me in the backside and ruin great memories well after Ive got back with a fine.
Its also crazy that the rental companies haven't thought it through. And in this example you will see that they have been a bit 'economical' with the explanation, you have to dig through their website to get the answer (Details below my sign-off)
Recently good friends came to visit - had a great time. We discussed tolls and they said the rental company had said they would pass on the bill to them. So they didn't worry. Strictly true - but cleverly worded. However I got suspicious and researched it further for them and sent the email below my sign off: Here I will explain what I did:
I went to a PO with a native Portuguese speaker to try and pay and reverse any fine, even willing to pay any late charge. My friend even authorised me to pay the fine as she was worried that with all the admin needed, with government and renter, they could be late fine payers when the envelope landed on their doorstep - and they worried about having a fine on the fine!!!! The system showed no usage beyond the pay - period. So we were stuck. They gave an email address (sure that will work!!) and a special SMS number - but we failed. Our friends will get a fine now - and hope that there isn't a late payment fine on the fine!
Great way to end a holiday - with these worries. Remember someone posted a bill of somewhere around 300Euros for a small toll.
We now hear from AndyS that you have to pay the whole bill when you go to a PO/Payshop. So you cant select your trips EVEN if you are on time.
This was predictable and a mess..... email to my friend below...
Jon (glued to the soapbox )
Email to friend who rented from xxxx. My comments in normal text - renters comments italicised + maybe highlighted in addition.
I was checking the toll situation and realised that there was a 'clever' wording on the xxxx site. Details below.
Im sending you this as if you want me to go to a post office and pay this and maybe pay a late charge as opposed to a fine I would do it..... I just need the no-plate of your car.
Sorry for this hassle and I hate to cause a problem, but would be happy to help to reduce (or eliminate) any problem...
It says this:
If the payment for the use of the A.22 has not been made, the rental car company is obliged by law to provide details of the renter/driver of the hire vehicle to the TOLL collection agency.
The customer will then be billed to his/her home address for payment of TOLLS on the A.22
This is also what you've been told.
However they have carefully not mentioned extra charges.
Reading further down
It's better not use the A22 on last day of holiday because you have no way of paying. AND.....
NON-PAYMENT:
In the event where the customer doesn't go to one of these Pay-shops or Post Offices to pay the TOLL, the rental car company ( xxxx) will receive notification of the value of the outstanding TOLL that has to be paid for that date on the vehicle. We will then provide the customer's details and a copy of the Rental Agreement to the toll's company and they will issue an INVOICE to the renter at his/her home address.
But only at the end do they get to the meat of the matter....
To avoid TOLL charges is to use the EN 125 - specially on your last two or three days of your holidays as you will not be able to pay so will certainly receive bill at home with an extra fee.
Every renter HAS to have a credit card and the transponders already link to a bank account. Many (most?) people have a credit card, many debit cards also work. So we have systems in place to access both bank accounts and credit cards. Having a method to access either with numberplate recognition would make things easier (and cheaper - No transponders). There is already a way to do no-plate recognition with a credit card, but only for foreign cars. I say do it both Portuguese and holidaymakers, as long as there was a way to switch on and off the payment details. With a PO/Payshop alternative.
With tourism being so important - I think its crazy that the government didn't think this through.
Look at the reaction on the forum immediately it was announced -we knew straight away that this was a problem and all we predicted has come to light. Proper analysis of the problem would have created a better solution. But of course we are talking about 'big government' here - should I be surprised that they cocked it up!! I am OK to pay the tolls as long as the system isn't going to bite me in the backside and ruin great memories well after Ive got back with a fine.
Its also crazy that the rental companies haven't thought it through. And in this example you will see that they have been a bit 'economical' with the explanation, you have to dig through their website to get the answer (Details below my sign-off)
Recently good friends came to visit - had a great time. We discussed tolls and they said the rental company had said they would pass on the bill to them. So they didn't worry. Strictly true - but cleverly worded. However I got suspicious and researched it further for them and sent the email below my sign off: Here I will explain what I did:
I went to a PO with a native Portuguese speaker to try and pay and reverse any fine, even willing to pay any late charge. My friend even authorised me to pay the fine as she was worried that with all the admin needed, with government and renter, they could be late fine payers when the envelope landed on their doorstep - and they worried about having a fine on the fine!!!! The system showed no usage beyond the pay - period. So we were stuck. They gave an email address (sure that will work!!) and a special SMS number - but we failed. Our friends will get a fine now - and hope that there isn't a late payment fine on the fine!
Great way to end a holiday - with these worries. Remember someone posted a bill of somewhere around 300Euros for a small toll.
We now hear from AndyS that you have to pay the whole bill when you go to a PO/Payshop. So you cant select your trips EVEN if you are on time.
This was predictable and a mess..... email to my friend below...
Jon (glued to the soapbox
)Email to friend who rented from xxxx. My comments in normal text - renters comments italicised + maybe highlighted in addition.
I was checking the toll situation and realised that there was a 'clever' wording on the xxxx site. Details below.
Im sending you this as if you want me to go to a post office and pay this and maybe pay a late charge as opposed to a fine I would do it..... I just need the no-plate of your car.
Sorry for this hassle and I hate to cause a problem, but would be happy to help to reduce (or eliminate) any problem...
It says this:
If the payment for the use of the A.22 has not been made, the rental car company is obliged by law to provide details of the renter/driver of the hire vehicle to the TOLL collection agency.
The customer will then be billed to his/her home address for payment of TOLLS on the A.22
This is also what you've been told.
However they have carefully not mentioned extra charges.
Reading further down
It's better not use the A22 on last day of holiday because you have no way of paying. AND.....
NON-PAYMENT:
In the event where the customer doesn't go to one of these Pay-shops or Post Offices to pay the TOLL, the rental car company ( xxxx) will receive notification of the value of the outstanding TOLL that has to be paid for that date on the vehicle. We will then provide the customer's details and a copy of the Rental Agreement to the toll's company and they will issue an INVOICE to the renter at his/her home address.
But only at the end do they get to the meat of the matter....
To avoid TOLL charges is to use the EN 125 - specially on your last two or three days of your holidays as you will not be able to pay so will certainly receive bill at home with an extra fee.
So to anyone who thinks they should just ignore the charges becuase the 3rd world Portuguese will never get their act together to track you down - THINK AGAIN. Portugal is one of the most bureaucratic nations in the EU so they will eventually get their pound of flesh. I spoke to a number of holidaymakers just recently and most of them were planning just to ignore the tolls. If anyone out there is giving this advice to their friends or family then you should offer to pay the whole charges if you're wrong
Jul 20th 2012, 10:25 pm
#53
Forum Regular
Joined: Dec 2004
Location: Sheffield
Posts: 209
Re: TOLL BOOTHS ON BORDER
This wasn't my experience. I went to the PO in Villa Real, to pay for my trips. They listed the outstanding trips the car had made (that had not been paid), and asked if I wanted to pay for them all. I declined, and just paid for the trips I had made, without a problem.
Jul 21st 2012, 10:05 am
#54
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 2,377
Re: TOLL BOOTHS ON BORDER
I recall either yourself having mentioned this previously, or perhaps my having read it on the ctt.pt (Post Office) website.
I understand that drivers of Portuguese registered rental cars should pay ideally (48 hours - 5 days after using the toll road) at a Post Office, if such drivers wish to see an itemised invoice of toll charges.
Bring along the car hire details/contract (which should have the date&time of collection, and which is kept in the car anyway). Ask for an itemised invoice, and pay only for what has been used.
If choosing to pay at one of the PayShop chains, I believe this itemised invoice facility is not available. Can anyone confirm?
This option to post-pay at a PayShop is not a problem for local, Portuguese registered car drivers, but it can be a problem, as we have foreseen, for tourists in Portuguese registered rental cars. Why? Because of the quick changeover of drivers, especially during the Summer season. Someone posted that the rentalcar changeover can be as quick as one hour!*
So, what to do if another driver's toll charges "appear" (ie. the total is more than one calculated) on the invoice when at a PayShop? Can one say "No, I'm not paying for all that"? Does the invoice remain unchanged on the system once the car registration number has been called up? One would think so, especially as one can check online beforehand with ctt.pt, then one walks to a Post Office instead.
A hassle to say the least for a tourist in Portugal. Most likely the tourist will pay for the outstanding toll charge(s) there & then, or ignore it at a greater cost.
*Re the one-hour changeover: Hypothetically, could a tourist post pay exclusively for their own toll road useage during the Peak Season? The answer must be Yes if the toll road gantries record (by photo) the exact time/date.
Later,
Carol
Last edited by Carol&John; Jul 21st 2012 at 10:12 am.
Jul 21st 2012, 5:19 pm
#55
BE Positive
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,980
Re: TOLL BOOTHS ON BORDER
I hate to say "I told you so!" (no I don't I love it) But this is exactly the scenario I gave as an example months back. It happened to me in Italy, Europcar charged me 30Euros to provide my details to the local plod and eventually (after nearly 12months) I got a fine + redoubled late payment charges. In the end it cost me around 800Euros!!.
So to anyone who thinks they should just ignore the charges becuase the 3rd world Portuguese will never get their act together to track you down - THINK AGAIN. Portugal is one of the most bureaucratic nations in the EU so they will eventually get their pound of flesh. I spoke to a number of holidaymakers just recently and most of them were planning just to ignore the tolls. If anyone out there is giving this advice to their friends or family then you should offer to pay the whole charges if you're wrong
So to anyone who thinks they should just ignore the charges becuase the 3rd world Portuguese will never get their act together to track you down - THINK AGAIN. Portugal is one of the most bureaucratic nations in the EU so they will eventually get their pound of flesh. I spoke to a number of holidaymakers just recently and most of them were planning just to ignore the tolls. If anyone out there is giving this advice to their friends or family then you should offer to pay the whole charges if you're wrong
I heard about this and was suspicious and investigated further and had to go to the end of the rentalco web page (as shown above) to find the 'meat' of the matter - i.e you will get fined.
Unfortunately I was too late to help them - even when we went with a Portuguese friend.
I use the m-ways freely - in our rental car - every time - and only pay the tolls - not the fines.
Bottom line for renters : We need to have a system to protect ourselves.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> How...
The 2 key questions to ask the rental co is 'How do I avoid fines', and 'do you (rental co) have a system to pay the tolls for the last trip to the airport.'
Listen carefully to their response to the first bit... then
If they tell you to use the 125 for the last trip (or the last 2/3 days) - that means immediately that you will be fined if you use the m-way in the last 2-3 days.
Knowing this you have 2 options:
1. (Pay your tolls regularly at a PO/post office during your stay) ................ then Use the 125
2. In addition to paying your tolls at the PO and the Payshop during your stay... when you leave (taking the m-way).... make a note of your no-plate and after a couple of days ask a friend to go to the PO and pay the toll.
You should be OK. (I hope - I think I have it sussed - but I am not the expert on this - just my opinion!)
Now Andy and Bob (and us) have had different experiences about whether you can pay a part of the toll (the bit you used) - or all for the days you had the car ( the bit the next renter used). But if you pay a few Euros for the other guys rental, its cheaper than a fine!
I don't know about this part as I've never been there. But the most important bit is above.....in blue
Take control and have a GREAT VISIT to a wonderful corner of the world....
... go home feeling good!!!
And I can do you a good deal on soaps!
Enjoy your stays as we do every time...
Jon
Last edited by Jon-Bxl; Jul 21st 2012 at 5:31 pm.
Jul 24th 2012, 10:24 pm
#56
Bleating on & on
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 148
Re: TOLL BOOTHS ON BORDER
Hello Boys,Well for me.. I registered at the border crossing with the credit card...
Since then I've been charged as used ,,,no fuss, no problem.
What's the gripe for us foreigners??
Finally the system is easy to use and works ...
Good on you Portugal ..
Stop acting ze Goat!!! Stop fleezing Portugal..
Bye de weeh!! This cooler weather is perfect
Last edited by Barbara Red lips; Jul 24th 2012 at 10:28 pm.
Jul 25th 2012, 7:35 am
#57
BE Positive
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,980
Re: TOLL BOOTHS ON BORDER
Hello Boys,Well for me.. I registered at the border crossing with the credit card...
Since then I've been charged as used ,,,no fuss, no problem.
What's the gripe for us foreigners??
Finally the system is easy to use and works ...
Good on you Portugal ..
Stop acting ze Goat!!! Stop fleezing Portugal..
Bye de weeh!! This cooler weather is perfect
errrr. have you actually read the thread through. No-one is saying there is a problem with the foreign registered cars.
Stop acting ze goat - read the thread Portugal is Fleezing itself....
Jul 26th 2012, 8:15 am
#58
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,675
Re: TOLL BOOTHS ON BORDER
Copy of EasyToll brochure.
Jul 29th 2012, 4:29 pm
#59
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 2,377
Re: TOLL BOOTHS ON BORDER
Good to see the EasyToll on a new thread title, MikeJ.
It can be confusing on the threads if a distinction is not made between Portuguese registered plated cars, and foreign registered plated cars.
So far, so good for us in our rental car
(Portuguese registered). The rental company installed a transponder - it is registered to the car's plate number *- and we pay a fee for tolls that can be topped up as necessary.
No more trips to the Post Office or Pay Shop (saving on fuel). No more administrative costs for each toll payment. No worries about paying for someone else's journey.
*so no good to an opportunistic thief, apparently.
It can be confusing on the threads if a distinction is not made between Portuguese registered plated cars, and foreign registered plated cars.
So far, so good for us in our rental car
(Portuguese registered). The rental company installed a transponder - it is registered to the car's plate number *- and we pay a fee for tolls that can be topped up as necessary. No more trips to the Post Office or Pay Shop (saving on fuel). No more administrative costs for each toll payment. No worries about paying for someone else's journey.
*so no good to an opportunistic thief, apparently.
Jul 29th 2012, 6:41 pm
#60
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2004
Location: Shenfield, Essex
Posts: 615
Re: TOLL BOOTHS ON BORDER
Good to see the EasyToll on a new thread title, MikeJ.
It can be confusing on the threads if a distinction is not made between Portuguese registered plated cars, and foreign registered plated cars.
So far, so good for us in our rental car(Portuguese registered). The rental company installed a transponder - it is registered to the car's plate number *- and we pay a fee for tolls that can be topped up as necessary.
No more trips to the Post Office or Pay Shop (saving on fuel). No more administrative costs for each toll payment. No worries about paying for someone else's journey.
*so no good to an opportunistic thief, apparently.
It can be confusing on the threads if a distinction is not made between Portuguese registered plated cars, and foreign registered plated cars.
So far, so good for us in our rental car
(Portuguese registered). The rental company installed a transponder - it is registered to the car's plate number *- and we pay a fee for tolls that can be topped up as necessary. No more trips to the Post Office or Pay Shop (saving on fuel). No more administrative costs for each toll payment. No worries about paying for someone else's journey.
*so no good to an opportunistic thief, apparently.
Would you mind PM'ing me which rental company you have used please.
Many thanks
