title deeds

Old Jan 8th 2008, 8:30 pm
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Default title deeds

Hi,

I was reading in a book recently that many spanish houses are sold without title deeds? has anyone had this problem? and is it easy to obtain them?
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Old Jan 8th 2008, 9:42 pm
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Default Re: title deeds

Originally Posted by dougyzf View Post
Hi,

I was reading in a book recently that many spanish houses are sold without title deeds? has anyone had this problem? and is it easy to obtain them?
Dont even go there dougyzf. Get a good solicitor and make sure the house you buy has all the title deeds and habitation certs otherwise you will end up in all kinds of cack
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Old Jan 9th 2008, 10:47 am
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Default Re: title deeds

Originally Posted by Mitzyboy View Post
Dont even go there dougyzf. Get a good solicitor and make sure the house you buy has all the title deeds and habitation certs otherwise you will end up in all kinds of cack
I agree with Mitzy, one would not buy a property here without the deeds in place, so why do it there ,make sure your solicitor is not one to do with the estate agent..........I read somewhere it is also better to have a small morgage than none at all because the bank borrowing the money won't unless all the paperwork is in order..........someone correct me if I'm wrong
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Old Jan 9th 2008, 10:51 am
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Default Re: title deeds

Originally Posted by Mitzyboy View Post
Dont even go there dougyzf. Get a good solicitor and make sure the house you buy has all the title deeds and habitation certs otherwise you will end up in all kinds of cack

As Mitzy said
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Old Jan 9th 2008, 1:31 pm
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Smile Re: title deeds

Originally Posted by dougyzf View Post
Hi,

I was reading in a book recently that many spanish houses are sold without title deeds? has anyone had this problem? and is it easy to obtain them?
Hi dougyzf,

Welcome to the forum. On all the spanish fora that I log on to everybody insists that you should not sign the Escritura without the following: -

1. Licencia de Primera Ocupacion ( The most important this allows you to move in and get the utilities connected etc..)

2.Certificado de Instalacion Electrica de baja tension ( need this for your electricity)

3.Boletin de Instalaciones de Agua ( water cert)

4. Certifcado de Instalacion individual de Gas ( To get your gas Connected)

5. More than likely some paperwork from the administrator of the urbanisation so you start to pay community fees by direct debit.

6. The manuals etc of the oven,vitro,hob and gas boiler.

7. The remote control ( Fob) for the gates/barriers.

This was just posted by the most trustworthy estate agent in all of Spain on a different thread but very timely advice.

Regards,

John.

Last edited by EsuriJohn; Jan 9th 2008 at 1:44 pm.
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Old Jan 9th 2008, 2:04 pm
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Default Re: title deeds

thanks for that!!
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Old Jan 9th 2008, 3:35 pm
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Default Re: title deeds

Originally Posted by dougyzf View Post
Hi,

I was reading in a book recently that many spanish houses are sold without title deeds? has anyone had this problem? and is it easy to obtain them?
Someone near us bought a place like this (new build, "but some minor issues with the deeds, don't worry, it'll be alright, just pay us all your money").

Not only does it turn out that the house has no planning permission i.e. should be bulldozed by rights, it also transpires that much of the land that the house is built on isn't even his, belonging to someone down the road!!!

Estate agents, solicitors and builders will all happily tell you that "it'll be fine, everyone in Spain completes without water, electricity, habitation rights, deeds to the property, etc, etc, etc". It's all a great wheeze... trouble is the very best outcome is that it'll take ages (read: years) for the paperwork to finally get sorted during which time you are in legal limbo and unable to sell. Alternatively, things could be much much worse.
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Old Jan 9th 2008, 3:46 pm
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Default Re: title deeds

Originally Posted by dougyzf View Post
Hi,

I was reading in a book recently that many spanish houses are sold without title deeds? has anyone had this problem? and is it easy to obtain them?
BIG FAT NO NO!
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Old Jan 9th 2008, 3:52 pm
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Default Re: title deeds

To stick my neck out but for information only, property in the old days and still now can be bought and sold on a compraventa. It was not obligatory to have property registered and is a newer phenomenon. Im sure this practise is still carried out but you have no real idea where your land starts and stops etc! This was after the days of Franco when no one could prove ownership.

Nowadays totally different and if you want a mortgage, the bank will insist on it, but I do remember when I came to Spain only 13 years ago, people buying and selling in this manner.

And whilst banks do insist on everything being correct, this has only really been enforced since the licensing issue in Marbella last year.

I have owned my house since october 06 and the bank lent without wanting the final license of habitation! It was 5 years old, up and running with community being cared for etc but just shows what goes on. And even in illegal developments where banks wont lend, the builders bank will subrogate to a new buyer, so no hard and fast rules - as always!
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Old Jan 9th 2008, 4:06 pm
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Default Re: title deeds

Originally Posted by Rixxy View Post
To stick my neck out but for information only, property in the old days and still now can be bought and sold on a compraventa. It was not obligatory to have property registered and is a newer phenomenon. Im sure this practise is still carried out but you have no real idea where your land starts and stops etc! This was after the days of Franco when no one could prove ownership.
Another neighbour of ours had to attend a meeting with his solicitor and about 20 locals to agree on what constituted the land / property he was buying when he moved in! Naturally, this all took place BEFORE he handed over any money. I think he had balls of steel to do this, though...

Originally Posted by Rixxy View Post
And whilst banks do insist on everything being correct, this has only really been enforced since the licensing issue in Marbella last year.
Banks are out to make money, and lending money on property is a great wheeze, ahem, well, used to be a great wheeze as I'm sure any Northern Rock investors will tell you! This goldrush has resulted in banks asking fewer questions, although I'm sure things will be getting much tougher in the next 12 months when they've finished counting their junk CDO and SIP investments

Originally Posted by Rixxy View Post
I have owned my house since october 06 and the bank lent without wanting the final license of habitation! It was 5 years old, up and running with community being cared for etc but just shows what goes on. And even in illegal developments where banks wont lend, the builders bank will subrogate to a new buyer, so no hard and fast rules - as always!
It's very common for the builder's bank to lend money. Their money is already tied up in the development (at a stage prior to the habitation being issued since it's still just land at that point). Do they (a) not lend the money and risk the developer going under or (b) lend the money to individuals to buy out the developer's original loan? It's about spreading risk.

It's great to know that the practice is still going on, though. There is a 'not strictly legal' development going ahead a few km from us. The local bank manager is in regular meetings with the developers, apparently 'very keen for the business'...
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Old Jan 9th 2008, 4:30 pm
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Default Re: title deeds

Originally Posted by dougyzf View Post
Hi,

I was reading in a book recently that many spanish houses are sold without title deeds? has anyone had this problem? and is it easy to obtain them?
NEVER buy a house without the deeds, no matter what the seller says, if he/she doesn't have the deeds, there is a fair chance that it is an illegal build, or the person doesn't have the right to sell the house. Only go through a reputable solicitor. People have bought houses in the way you have described, and even 5 years later are Still unable to get deeds.
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Old Jan 9th 2008, 8:32 pm
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Default Re: title deeds

There are a good number of fincas in the campo that have been passed down through the family for generations and have never been officially register or have deeds. Get a good lawyer who isn't associated with the estate agents or the sellers and they should be able to say whether everything is above board or not.

Although I have to agree with a lot of what has been said here about new builds and shady developers, I think there's a bit of scaremongering going on. I wouldn't go so far as to say NEVER buy property without deeds. Deeds can usually be drawn up as part of the sale. The current owners of that dream finca who live 500 miles away and have just inherited it from old granny Mabel may be completely genuine and just want to get shot of it. It can take time and be a load of hassle for all the deeds to be drawn up and maybe the seller just wants a quick sale to pay off the inheritance tax bill that they've just been presented with.
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Old Jan 9th 2008, 9:28 pm
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Smile Re: title deeds

Originally Posted by billgates View Post
maybe the seller just wants a quick sale to pay off the inheritance tax bill that they've just been presented with.
Hi billgates,

I thought the law on IHT in Spain was framed in that stupid way that you must pay the IHT before you are allowed to receive probate and sell the property!

Regards,

John.
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Old Jan 9th 2008, 9:59 pm
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Default Re: title deeds

I wouldn't know about that John. I was just trying to think of an example where sellers would not want the hassle of having to spend money before selling up. Bit like a lot of houses in the Uk - if the seller invested a few thousand on doing the place up they would probably recoup it all in the sale, and probably a quicker sale at that.

Seems a bit daft though that you could inherit a property through no fault of your own and so earn a huge inheritance debt that you couldn't pay, then not be allowed to sell the property to pay the debt. The person that thought up that ruling clearly has a twisted sense of humour.
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Old Jan 9th 2008, 10:08 pm
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Default Re: title deeds

Originally Posted by billgates View Post
I wouldn't know about that John. I was just trying to think of an example where sellers would not want the hassle of having to spend money before selling up. Bit like a lot of houses in the Uk - if the seller invested a few thousand on doing the place up they would probably recoup it all in the sale, and probably a quicker sale at that.

Seems a bit daft though that you could inherit a property through no fault of your own and so earn a huge inheritance debt that you couldn't pay, then not be allowed to sell the property to pay the debt. The person that thought up that ruling clearly has a twisted sense of humour.
He is quite correct. All IHT has to be paid before the property is sold, although there are ways of getting around that if its left to a spouse. Scaremongering is not what we are doing. You dont have to look far on the forums to find terrible stories about what has happened to people who have done this. You wouldn't buy a house in the UK without the deeds .... why on earth do it here.
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