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thinking of moving to spain...

thinking of moving to spain...

Old Nov 14th 2011, 9:24 pm
  #31  
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Default Re: thinking of moving to spain...

I always thought we were charged the normal rate in Spain. Thinking about it though how would one know
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Old Nov 14th 2011, 9:29 pm
  #32  
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Default Re: thinking of moving to spain...

This rubbish about two tier prices I am sure is one of those good old urban myths. "Oh he´s a foreigner we will charge him more. It´s probably said by expats in every country and "everybody knows it happens," until of course you ask for real cases with names.
I will give you a couple of cases of reality, house socket rewiring, bringing up to date trebling the amount of outlets and complete with new distribution system and fans in every room, 1777.65€ every item detailed.
House painted outside, large house covering three stories and facing two calles requiring constant use of powered elevator thingy for them to work from, 1521€ finished almost three years ago and still looks as good as new.
Car service, never been above 160€.
I have just checked the invoices for accuracy not even any black money involved.
If this is part of a two tier pricing system I only wished that I had had it all the years I lived in the UK.
All the above were recommended to us by neighbours.

Graham
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Old Nov 14th 2011, 11:42 pm
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Default Re: thinking of moving to spain...

Originally Posted by jackytoo View Post
I think this op is a wind up, no-one spells that bad unless intentional, someone is having a larf
Never........
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Old Nov 15th 2011, 6:29 am
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Default Re: thinking of moving to spain...

I have just skimmed through the whole debate - moving to Spain with two children.

You need to work - No work in most of Spain at present and likely to get worse. If you are looking for work you are starting from a negative.

If you speak good Spanish it is unlikely that you will get work. If you dont speak good Spanish you will never get work.

You are looking for 6 months rental starting April. You may have no difficulty acquiring accommodation but in holiday areas your landlord will want more money for July to August.

The above is only the beginning of your problems. If your teenager has no Spanish then he/she is on to a loser from the start.

I do not know what your occupation is but test the water before you commit even to a month's residence in Spain.
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Old Nov 15th 2011, 6:54 am
  #35  
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Default Re: thinking of moving to spain...

Originally Posted by jackytoo View Post
I think this op is a wind up, no-one spells that bad unless intentional, someone is having a larf
Careful now, does anyone use such bad English unless it's intentional? - it's "that badly" not "that bad"!
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Old Nov 15th 2011, 6:58 am
  #36  
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Default Re: thinking of moving to spain...

Originally Posted by Lynn R View Post
Careful now, does anyone use such bad English unless it's intentional? - it's "that badly" not "that bad"!
Bring back the adverbs, that's what I say!

... but then I'm a pedant
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Old Nov 15th 2011, 7:18 am
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Default Re: thinking of moving to spain...

Originally Posted by amideislas View Post
Cam belt was about €300.

Is that the cost of the belt or the total with labour ??
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Old Nov 15th 2011, 9:05 am
  #38  
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Default Re: thinking of moving to spain...

Originally Posted by emmaboo View Post
No no no lol
sorry i dont expect a spanish school to teach in english of course not, however i would think that there would be english students who attened the school thats what i ment sorry .
Actually, there's a bilingual program in Madrid and in state schools (colegios públicos) they teach in English and Spanish, roughly 50% of the classes are in English.

Anyway I wouldn't recommend to move to Spain without a fixed incom or with a job arranged.

Originally Posted by amideislas View Post
First, welcome to Spain...

The rents may be cheaper here, but be prepared to pay a lot more for other stuff.

Bear in mind that the utility companies do not have much competition (and the competition they do have legally colludes with them anyway).

There is less consumer protection from gross misrepresentation in Spain than in other countries.

For example, the widely advertised €29.95 per month all-inclusive flat-rate for internet and telephone will be likely charged at €50, €60, or more per month, regardless of what they put in writing on their website, in an email, or tell you over the phone as you place your order.

There is little recourse for this. The Spanish equivalent of OFT is largely impotent against blatent misrepresentation - especially when large, powerful companies are the perpetrator.

The larger utility companies hold a licence to impose whatever charges they wish - and force you to pay it.. Up to a reasonable limit that isn't blatently outrageous, but they will collect €1000's in overcharges out of you over time - €10 euros here, €50 euros there.... Most people just learn to get used to it. To fight it is simply too complex and overwhelming. You will find the bureacracy to be stunning.

You will be amazed at how car dealers and car repair shops will routinely misrepresent everything. Car dealers routinely and blatently lie to you about the car they are selling you. Major car repair shops will routinely claim that they had to replace every possible gadget on your car to repair it (only when the repair is finished and you are given a bill that causes you a heart attack) - and some will even drain the fuel out of your tank as an added bonus. A repair job that will cost you 100 quid in the UK can easily cost you €1000 here, and the full tank you brought the car in with will often be empty when you pick it up. But there's little you can do about it, and it's completely normal.

Spain is not quite civilised yet. So keep that in mind for your planning of move.
Albeit this characterization may seem exaggerated, I sadly have to agree these situations are likely to happen, depending on the people involved. amideislas exposes a perception and that perception seems genuine to me.

When they say €29.95 all-inclusive etc. they trick you in a sense because they don't say that land-line adds €12.95 and default services like call diverting or voice mailbox may be charged if you don't hire tv, for example. So if you aren't an eager reader of small-print contracts you may find yourself tricked and paying the double than expected and with a year and a half permanence agreement!

As by myself, I consider that I am an expert in Telecom, and I was tricked by ya.com with the VoIP thing. It didn't go so bad because I managed to get by, but if I wasn't an expert in the matter, I would be still fighting to get decent internet and telephony. And today I'm still missing phone calls because I failed to read the details and I relied on the speech of the saleswoman.

I have the gas utility hired with Gas Natural and they scam you with their "Servigas" service. They claim no labour nor travelling expenses applied, just an yearly fee --but the truth is that they add these to the bill inflating the part cost. I tried to resign when I noticed this but they told I could not resign because I used the service once. I summary they tried to scam me €200 for the part + €90 for the yearly fee. I got by through the boiler vendor (official) just by €80

And I don't dare even to denounce anything to the consumer's board: it's a waste of time in my experience. Every time I got involved in a complaining process I finished more angry than I started. It's more healthy for me shrugging my shoulders and breathing deep.

I also have bad experiences with car repair shops and with car dealers, but I don't want to bore you with more war stories. The point is that when you do business in Spain, sometimes you get seriousness and sometimes you don't. It depends on the people and not on the system.
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Old Nov 15th 2011, 9:50 am
  #39  
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Default Re: thinking of moving to spain...

Ref all the two-tier thing - well in touristy areas you sometimes see blatantly different prices if you look in both english and spanish menus - and they sometimes try to wriggle out if you query it... but always cough up any difference they might have tried to charge!
As to all the rest, I don't know about telefonica but have never had anything but seemingly good, equal, service everywhere.
As to the OP's plans....

[QUOTE=emmaboo;9732344]
Originally Posted by The Oddities View Post
But how will he learn anything when they are teaching in Spanish. The other students will not be able to translate for him because it would not be allowed and also because their work would suffer. Although I appreciate that 6 months in Spain might be an excellent experience for him I would have thought that this would be far to destructive to his education.

Rosemary[/

Yes i think you have a point, dont think i have thought hard enough about what it would be like for my son, might wait till the hoilday to start and just start off with the 6 weeks x
Definitely worth stopping and considering...

Originally Posted by JuanSolo View Post
Actually, there's a bilingual program in Madrid and in state schools (colegios públicos) they teach in English and Spanish, roughly 50% of the classes are in English.

Anyway I wouldn't recommend to move to Spain without a fixed incom or with a job arranged.
(SNIP).
Final point - agree. First point - truly bilingual schools are rare and by definition imply Spanish is part of the deal. Even the international schools usually have a %:% curriculum in whatever the language and Spanish, following the Spanish cono and lengua at the same pace as kids in state Spanish school of the equivalent age. So at 14 he would still be expected to do that even if the rest of the time he was doing lessons in English. On top of that (and this always turns contentious, but for the OP's benefit I feel it's worth saying) if you opt to be in a heavily-British area you need to just ask yourself why you want to be in Spain in the first place. I say this from the standpoint of one for whom the weather definitely is important. But equally my child's ability in another language, continued good education of whatever mix of nationality, his greater freedom living in the campo, the outdoors life, are all important and if you (he) are/is unable to experience those for lack of language, it might alter your view of how successful Spanish life will be for you. On the other hand, of course, if the 'coastal' more Brit-orientated lifestyle turns out to provide what you expect and a way of life you find you like, ignore me!!!!
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Old Nov 15th 2011, 11:42 am
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Default Re: thinking of moving to spain...

While I have no doubt that all of these experiences may have happened and worse, I really wonder how much of all this dialogue has actually helped Emma? I think everyone needs help knowing what to expect but I can only say SPAIN is a very big Country. It's no good generalizing, there are good and bad people all over the world. Fionamw posted while I was in mid flow and makes some excellent points. If I'm correct I think Emma needs to know more about actually moving and help with schooling rather than how much a cam belt replacement costs!

Emma have you spoken to your son about the move to Spain? Did you get a positive or negative response? I can only imagine that being on your own with two kids and one that is very young, will make your experience of moving abroad, even more challenging!

As you have identified you areas of interest, why not take a short trip out in one of the school breaks and take a quick look around. You may find your son loves or hates your idea, when he is actually here. Having an unhappy teenager making your life hard when you have so much to encounter won't be good. It's already been mentioned and I think you agree, your plans for your sons schooling, need re-thinking.

Have you or your son taken any Spanish classes or bought a course?
My advice would be to sit down and make a list of all the reasons,why you are considering living in Spain and how much money you will have to live on and if it is really possible for you and you children to live here on a permanent basis. If eventually you need to work, what will you do? and How much will you need to live on?

I wish you all the best.
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Old Nov 15th 2011, 12:48 pm
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Default Re: thinking of moving to spain...

Originally Posted by pablosho View Post
While I have no doubt that all of these experiences may have happened and worse, I really wonder how much of all this dialogue has actually helped Emma?
I don't know what Emma thinks.. but before I moved here, I previously lived only in places where there was clear and effective recourse when you get shafted - and especially when the perpetrators are "reputable" firms. So, the "reputable" firms tend to have actually earned their good reputation, and can be trusted.

Here it's the other way 'round. The big "reputable" companies are often the biggest criminals. Unfortunately, you have no choice but to transact business with some of them - the utilities, for example - and you are forced to live with the consequences of that. The big automobile dealers are 5-star experts at moving cash from your pocket to theirs, and their "reputation" is worthless to them.

To be honest, I can (almost) live with it in tradeoff for the many nice benefits of living here. In my experience, the small local businesses tend be honest and fair.

But I wish I had been advised that there is little or no recourse for getting gouged or swindled, that it happens often, and most often by the most "reputable" of the lot - the ones you're supposed to trust.

Welcome to Spain.
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Old Nov 15th 2011, 1:24 pm
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Default Re: thinking of moving to spain...

Hi amideislas,

I can only comment on my experiences in Spain but that's my point! I live in Jerez de la Frontera, Andalucia which has a population of 200,000 but I also work in villages within the province of Cadiz that have less than 1,500.

Are you 100% sure that what has happened to you, is happening all over Spain?
For certain utilities services you may be right.

Where do you actually live?

Why don't you actually name & shame these so called '5 Star' garages?

Why don't you use a local garage?

I would hardly call Telefonica reputable and Endessa have a bad name as well but to be honest before I moved here about 9 years ago, I remember BT & British Gas having the same troubles. Okay, you have an ombudsman but Spain has come a long way in the last 20 years. It has a lot of faults but chill out, take it for what it is or just don't live here if every Fulano, Zutano y Mengano keep shafting you!
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Old Nov 15th 2011, 1:41 pm
  #43  
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Default Re: thinking of moving to spain...

Originally Posted by pablosho View Post
It has a lot of faults but chill out, take it for what it is or just don't live here if every Fulano, Zutano y Mengano keep shafting you!
Absolutely!

Though it pains me to say it, Brits are more likely to get taken advantage of by their own countrymen rather than the Spanish.

Unfortunately the lack of linguistic ability on the part of many Brits puts them in a very vulnerable position, and they get taken in too easily by unscrupulous opportunists.
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Old Nov 15th 2011, 2:00 pm
  #44  
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Default Re: thinking of moving to spain...

Originally Posted by Unmutual View Post
Absolutely!

Though it pains me to say it, Brits are more likely to get taken advantage of by their own countrymen rather than the Spanish.

Unfortunately the lack of linguistic ability on the part of many Brits puts them in a very vulnerable position, and they get taken in too easily by unscrupulous opportunists.
Oh yes. I absolutely agree with that one from personal experience.
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Old Nov 15th 2011, 2:47 pm
  #45  
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Default Re: thinking of moving to spain...

I got shafted with buying potatoes off of the local old guy sitting under his umbrella. I asked how much a bag was and was told 5 euros, which I thought was expensive, but hey ho helping the local economy etc then when he carried them to the car he said it would be another euro. I gave it to him but won´t buy from him again especially as the potatoes were old and soft. Oh yes I spoke to him in Spanish and he has seen me tons of times.
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