robt23

Hi people,

I`ve been here for the past 17 years, 10 of those have been hell on earth !

I had what started out as a simple lower back hernia. Doctors said, ah , no problem ,will go away. That was 10 years ago. They have not moved one iota in 10 years over here , regarding treating backs. Just take afew paracetamol and a muscle relaxant, you`ll be up in 3 days.

What I do find is alot of looking down at you as if you were so ignorant, that you were born yesterday. I miss speaking to an English doctor so much.

Everything that could possibly or nearly everything that a person could have pathologically speaking, I have in my back.

Check this out: L1 to S1 , disc degeneration, including : bulges, protusions, arthritis, espondilosis, osteofites. The discs have lost so much height that they are practically compressing all the nerves from L1 to S1. So I am in constant severe pain for much of those 10 years. The last 3 have been really bad. 10 being top, I`d put it at an 11.

I also have scoliosis and a hiperlordosis. These 2 cases are practicalliy the same. Basically, the spine is over curved , either from the side or front. This condition compounds the already existing condition of my spine . More pain.

I don`t trust the operations carried out now because in the Spanish Social Security it ( the operation ) hasn`t changed in 30 years.

I`ve lost count of the number of medical specialists I`ve seen. One of the last ones was the best , according to sources here in Granada. He`s an ozone specialist. He said he can not do any thing. He tried giving me a course of physio about 2 years ago which amounted to nothing.

I`m know seeing a reumatologist but he talks and really is saying nothing !

Around a month ago I said ther was a clinic in Barcelona called Teknon who are in joint co-operation with them on stem cell treatment.

He said , nooooooooo...........you don`t have to go there , we have it here . I really was optimistic but this guy seems to full of dark matter, if you know what I mean.

Well, that`s where I`m at know . I used to walk but can`t really besides the house. It`s not just the back it`s all of my torso, stomach , abdomin. A nightmare.

I`ve heard of this new treatment with stem cells taken from your own fat and reinjecting them into your damaged discs.

People is this sciencefiction or just media hype ?

Health to you !!!!!!!!!!!!

jdr

All I am going to say is that the surgery skills in operations I have experienced have been excellent and I have utmost respect for the Spanish health service.
Sad news about your experiences, but if you think Spain is 30 years behind then try the Benalmadena hospital, you will get a shock.

whitelinen

I am sorry to hear you are unwell but at a loss as to why you have not asked for nor have been given a referral to a pain management clinic.

With regards to degenerative discs I do know that percutaneous vertebroplasty has been available on the Spanish national health system in Valencia for at least the past 6 years.

For a diagnosis I would pay for a consultation at the private hospital in Pamplona, armed with their report you can take it back to the NHS consultant to follow the treatment they suggest. www.cun.es

As for the Spanish health service I find it excellent and offering the best treatments available.

robt23

Hi Jdr,

Benalmadena hospital, that`s in Malaga , I think. Is it a private hospital or SS ? In my case I had to wait 1 year before I was admitted for rehab. That was for a max of 2 weeks on SS. After that nothing , no follow up ,nothing. I`m talking 10 years ago, then 6 years ago and the last one 4 . Like I said no follow up whatsoever, pathetic.

What`s this shock you mention, are they using stem cells !!!

Regards .

robt23

Hi whitelinen,

Yes, I have been in the pain managemenet clinc for 4 years. Was in a bad way as my L1-L2 went side way abit. They gave me tramadol, basically a dirivitive of morphin. 150 mg every 12 hours . This was mixed in with a hypnotic. Seemed to work, ah, but after afew weeks I was constipated. Really severe it was , I also noticed red blobs all over my body , especially my feet and the itching was unbearable. However, I could walk.

The side effects were causing me distress in other vital parts of the body, but I stayed with it for a year at least. I tried limiting my doses , slowly, but I couldn`t kick it. I was hooked.

I finally managed at the start of last year to kick it. I had a stroke of bad luck ,when I caught the flu. I was in bed and waing up ready to take my antibiotic when it got stuc in my throat, couldn't go up or down. I coughed with such force as to agitatate my lower back once more. The pain, there is not a word in the dictionary that could describe that. I knew I had driven the nail right in.

Percutaneous vertebroplasty, no this is for fratures, I have nothing fratured. My problem is disc related. I have been to a dozen or so specialist with both x-rays and MRI scans. The latest of which I have done 2 months ago. Every expert I talk to says that they can do nothing. Others are really condisending and say ther are people walking the streets with more than you. This was 2006 by the chief physio of Granada hospital.

The same thing 2 days ago. The locum came round and said practically the same thing as the physio in 2006. Really disheartening and damn right insensitve human beings.

We wanted to shw the locum the mri but she said, don`t see many. I don`t think the locum could read an mri so how can I ,

There seems to be one clinc in Barcelona , but I`ve been scanning some mor than disgruntled people who have been there. I won`t mention th specialists name but he was a pioneer in Spain for atroscopic surgery.

I think I am passed that stage.

I have been taling to leading specialists, believe me, it`s damn tough getting hold of one to talk. This one says the only operation done on SS involve the stabalizing of 2 or more vertebrea with metal rods. Stem cells, forget it. She said we have just started on animals.

They say that when you die you go up or down , I think we are already down, nothing worse than this, personally speaking, I wouldn`t wish it for dog !!

Regard.

linjon

I am very sorry to read of all your ongoing medical problems, pain is such a debilitating condition to have to live with. It seems from what you have said that many different specialists have all come to the same conclusion i.e. there is little more (if anything) that can be done through either surgery or physiotherapy and that must be terribly difficult to try to accept.

Many, many years ago I worked with an anaesthetist who specialised in pain control using acupuncture alongside pharmacology treatments with some very good results on many patients with complex spinal problems.

With regard to the very common side effect of chronic constipation, this can be managed well with a combination of lactulose liquid and suppositories/enemas on a bi-weekly basis. Not too pleasant I know, but if it means being able to take strong pain relief medications to good effect then maybe worth considering?

As depression can become a major problem for anyone living with severe chronic pain and debility, it may also be worth considering talking to either your doctor or other health care professional about your frustration and anger with your situation. Nerve pain can be helped by low doses of one of the older anti-depressant medications and as it also can lift your mood too it may also be worth thinking about.

I wish you well and hope that your situation can be improved soon, even if only a little.

Best wishes. Linjon

jdr

It is an SS hospital with all the latest equipment.
I was diagnosed with a hernia at the doctors, he sent me to the Hospital to see a specialist, and I had all the usual checks and tests and results the same day, would of taken months in the UK.
They found slightly high blood pressure so I had to take tabs to lower it.
Had the op and good out patient care after.
All this took less than a month from the doctors to having stitches and staples out.

The shock is the amount of equipment they have there.

cricketman

I'll back you up on that, the Benalmadena hospital is great. I walked in there late one night to get some antibiotics because I had an infecton. I was seen by a nurse and doctor straight away and was in and out in 30 mins. Everything also sparkly clean.

Re, stem cells. You cant take them from your own fat, you can only get them from faetuses (i.e. aborted babies) or the umbilical chord. When you give birth in Spain they ask you whether you want to donate the umbilical chord for stem cell research.

I also cant see how stem cells will help a bad back I am afraid. They are working on cures for dementia with them I know that.

I am sorry for your suffering.

robt23

Thanks people,

linjon seems to know abit about this . however, I have tried that lactose remedie and also the suppositories. The former , infact both carry risks and the side effect I got from the lactose was diarrhea, not good. I am now taking a very strong anti-inflammatory 3 times a day with magnesium tablets and a hypnotic , i.e. anti-depressant. I am drinking pleny of fluids and taking activia. At least I can go without too much effort, even though it `s not on a daily bases.

Regarding the comment made by jdr, It seems in your particular case at that specific time you needed the operation, or did the doctor offer alternati ves ? Would have been interesting to have known the year this happened. Did anybody explain the procedure to you, the locum or the specialist. Bear in mind that the Bedalmadena hospital is not as large as Granada Capital , Virgen de las Nieves. They too have all the equipment but are in the 70`s when it comes to back surgery or advanced techniques.

In the early stages of 2002, February, I think , I had the hernia and it wasn`t until June that I got the results. During all that time I was constantly saying when. They said , ah, soon,soon. Then through an acquaintance we got see the specialist. All he said was , yes, you`ve got a disc hernia and we can operate but I recommend not to.

The specialist went through the op . Afew metal rods either side of the vertebra ,decompress the nerve and stabilize the spine. I said , so what about this new technique , where the disc is removed. He said we used to do that but we found that it was unsatable. I of course wasn`t going for the op so I didn`t persue it further.

The problem when you tak a disc out and do what`s called a fusion , where they literally fuse youy 2 vertebrae together is that it increases pressure on the 2 discs above and below the fused bone. In summary more likely to hav another hernia and also the fusion doesn`t always go to plan. I did some reading on the matter a year later.

From 2002 - 2011 , between these dates the only op being don in SS hospitals is by metal rods. They limit your movement tremendously and the pain in most cases doesn`t go away.

It is ironic in a way people that here in Granada, we have a stem cell bank, where if you wish you can donate yours. The stem cell treatment for me is the only real way forward, but it`s all hush hush. There`s billions of euros to be made and the pharmaceutical companies will lose their customers, something they don`t want. Folks , it`s all money motivated, that`s the bottom line. Who are the losers, we are as usual. Of course if your a sports star then these things don`t apply !!!!!!!!!

I wish you all the ind of health I can only dream about.

Regards.

linjon

I only know a little bit having worked in pain control, and hospice care in the past as a nurse. However, I would urge you to "look outside the box" and focus on pain control and improving your life rather than a "cure" that is probably not available at this time, harsh as that may sound.

If you at any time want to PM me I would be more than happy to discuss this as much as you need and may have some ideas to help you with day to day living. After all is said and done, that's what we all want, to live day to day in the best health possible at the moment.

Linjon

robt23

Hi linjon,

Thanks very much for your help and advice.

May you have good health as long as you breath !