bil

Anyone starting a war needs to have proper justification for their actions, just as when someone strikes an individual.
Afghanistan was IMO a just war, because that's where the 9-11 attack started.

(That's 9-11 twin towers, not the 9-11 when the US aided and abetted the Pinochet dictatorship's overthrow of an elected government that didn't suit them. Interestingly the US has tampered in most of Latin America's countries as well as the middle east, grenada etc. Possibly the country that has done more to overthrow democracies than any other in the world. Plus an ardent supporter of terrorism when it suits them cf the IRA.)

Now try and justify Iraq. We did not have UN approval, there were no WMDs, the cabinet were not shown the full facts, to me all the hallmarks of an illegal war.

Please don't come on all nationalistic, wrap yourself in the flag and blame criticism of the Iraq war as not supporting the troops.

Putting inadequate resources into Afghanistan in the first place was the hallmark of a campaign run by overconfident morons, and then going into Iraq before the Afghan situation was completely concluded just puts the icing on the cake of stupidity.

Iraq was an illegal invasion. Removing Saddam is the argument come up with by the usual sh*tstain morons who are happy to let Mugabe and other similar rulers continue in their particular vein as long as it suits the desires of the West, and lack the intelligence to see that there was a way that Saddam could have been removed comparatively painlessly without the massive death toll, the disruption of a country and the corresponding misery that all that entailed.

Ka Ora!

The foundations of this war go back many years religion and trade control are its foundation. Im all for the Middle East sorting out its own issues, As long as it does not involve Suicide Bombers on our streets. The Americans back handed the Syrians and Egyptians for arms to oust the Russians out of Afghanistan and its one of the many things that has come around to bite us in the ass. Now we have three large nations pitching for African resources China Russia and the US, Trust me no good will come of that. You cant be ashamed of history that you had no hand in molding, But you can learn from the errors of the past. Our futility is a security mechanism built in to our DNA, Science and Creativity lengthens our life span, But our Futility always kills us off at the optimum time, Thus never escaping death. This race of man is not the owner of planet earth merely a temporary custodian we will never get the deeds.

rugbymatt

Propaganda? I was born in Iran mate, we endured the hell that Iraq released on Iran and the kurds, albeit from a safe distance, and when we eventually got out we watched from the Emirates as Saddam turned the whole area into his own personal hell. The man was not only evil but also a crap muslim, and lets not forget that he openly supported various Christian factions in the former Yugoslavia as they committed unhindered Genocide on the ethnic muslims!

Its funny because no one has an answer to the real issue, Afghanistan, so they concentrate on Iraq, I couldn't care less about iraq, they can burn in hell for all I care, the Iraqis are well known for being scum in the middle east, thats why, for so long no Muslim country gave two shits about the place, but the second the USA gets involved it becomes a major issue!

Oh and lets not forget that it wasn't just the Uk and USA who entered the conflict, others did, obviously the French backed out, but then thats hardly a surprise given their pre disposition to doing so in every conflict the rest of the world has to deal with!

rugbymatt

As a separate point, I wonder how many of you would have the courage to stand in front of the parents and family of these brave, selfless men and women who have lost their lives and tell them their children, brothers, sisters and family that their deaths are in vain, that they shouldn't be held up as heros because the war was illegal.

Service men and women chose their career not their conflict.

Sam Greenfield

Well said Matt - my youngest son is on about signing up for the army - i will do everything in my power to stop him for doing this - the thought that one of my children could join up and be fighting in a war scares the holy shit out of me - maybe some on here will call me selfish for that but i dont give a shit - i love my kids and would do everything within my power to stop them from getting hurt

rugbymatt

Its a huge sacrifice for sure Sam and while I hope your boy makes the right decision I also know that it can be a hard thing to come to terms with!

Sam Greenfield

Im thinking of grounding him till he comes to his senses

paintermujer

Funny that Sam should make her comment cos I was just about to say that I have younger relatives from a school in Plymouth, in different years, that have lost school friends to this war.

We are talking 18-20 year olds.

Yes sam lock him up.

I just cant see the point.

Sam Greenfield

Hi PM - yeh my son is 21 - wants to learn a career - hes not been able to get an apprentiship since he finished his second year in college as an electrician so thought this might be a way to do it - sad eh when the only way you can get a career is though the army - think something isnt quite right here personally - lol yep im locking him up till hes 50 then hes gonna be too old

paintermujer

Just heard 3 more killed.

missbad

My daughter has her barb test on tuesday

bil

Nope. They are no less heroes because they went into Iraq on the back of a lie told by spineless, dishonest politicians with their own axe to grind. There are several parents who have lost children to that war who have said the same.

Iraq was an illegal war, and it's about time Blair and his little friends were impeached.