Go Back  British Expats > Living & Moving Abroad > Europe > Spain
Reload this Page >

"Squatters" in CE

"Squatters" in CE

Old Apr 13th 2021, 5:30 pm
  #46  
Forum Regular
 
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 163
DOWNANDOUT is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: "Squatters" in CE

Originally Posted by Thomas Bern View Post
Hi All
To my understanding there is this new law which (from september 2020) makes it much easier to get rid of squatters. Here are some first texts from an article in Fotocasa. (You will find the link below, but it´s in Spanish)
-" Through this new procedure, from the month of September of this year the Civil Guard and the National Police will be able to expel those persons who have committed burglary without resorting to judicial measures, as has happened to date. One of the main novelties of this instruction is that the 48-hour period that the forces of order had to wait to proceed with the eviction is eliminated. Now, if the crime is considered flagrant and the owner of the property proves that it legitimately belongs to him and that he does not allow anyone to be inside, the agents may expel the squatters, and may even arrest them, without the need to request judicial measures.

-" The Ministry of the Interior assures that this protocol aims to prevent, in addition to squatting itself, the appearance and consolidation of organizations and criminal groups dedicated to the usurpation of houses in order to rent or sell them fraudulently, through false contracts; a practice that has increased in recent years and has created a parallel illegal real estate market that is very difficult to control.

-" In addition to the speed with which the security forces will be able to vacate a property, this new law has another novelty: it also protects SECOND HOMES, which were previously even more unprotected than the first ones; In both, the same eviction procedure may be followed, the steps of which have been very well defined in this protocol.

Here´s the link
https://www.fotocasa.es/blog/comprav...ey-anti-ocupa/

You cannot advertise on the forum so your comment has been removed

Best regards
Thomas
Many thanks for this as its new to me. I'm checking it out with 'Spanish Property Insight ' website owner to see if this law is in place and being deployed.
DOWNANDOUT is offline  
Old Apr 13th 2021, 6:55 pm
  #47  
BE Forum Addict
 
MikeJ's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,675
MikeJ has a reputation beyond reputeMikeJ has a reputation beyond reputeMikeJ has a reputation beyond reputeMikeJ has a reputation beyond reputeMikeJ has a reputation beyond reputeMikeJ has a reputation beyond reputeMikeJ has a reputation beyond reputeMikeJ has a reputation beyond reputeMikeJ has a reputation beyond reputeMikeJ has a reputation beyond reputeMikeJ has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: "Squatters" in CE

Apparently the electronic gates to ME have been vandalised again- could be a prelude to an exploratory visit by Ocpus?
MikeJ is offline  
Old Apr 13th 2021, 7:24 pm
  #48  
Forum Regular
 
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 37
Ex Adeladie is on a distinguished road
Default Re: "Squatters" in CE

The gates were fixed within a couple of hours :-)
Ex Adeladie is offline  
Old Apr 13th 2021, 7:40 pm
  #49  
BE Forum Addict
 
MikeJ's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,675
MikeJ has a reputation beyond reputeMikeJ has a reputation beyond reputeMikeJ has a reputation beyond reputeMikeJ has a reputation beyond reputeMikeJ has a reputation beyond reputeMikeJ has a reputation beyond reputeMikeJ has a reputation beyond reputeMikeJ has a reputation beyond reputeMikeJ has a reputation beyond reputeMikeJ has a reputation beyond reputeMikeJ has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: "Squatters" in CE

Originally Posted by Ex Adeladie View Post
The gates were fixed within a couple of hours :-)
Thanks for the info glad to see Gesprosur are on the ball
MikeJ
MikeJ is offline  
Old Apr 14th 2021, 8:13 am
  #50  
BE Positive
Thread Starter
 
Jon-Bxl's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,868
Jon-Bxl has a reputation beyond reputeJon-Bxl has a reputation beyond reputeJon-Bxl has a reputation beyond reputeJon-Bxl has a reputation beyond reputeJon-Bxl has a reputation beyond reputeJon-Bxl has a reputation beyond reputeJon-Bxl has a reputation beyond reputeJon-Bxl has a reputation beyond reputeJon-Bxl has a reputation beyond reputeJon-Bxl has a reputation beyond reputeJon-Bxl has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: "Squatters" in CE

Originally Posted by MikeJ View Post
Apparently the electronic gates to ME have been vandalised again- could be a prelude to an exploratory visit by Ocpus?
My personal vote would be to reinstate the guard. It's the best visual deterrent I think and can also control all those people coming in, in the summer months.

Even with the best technology, I dont think I could effectively get any squatter kicked out within 48 hours - when I am at the other end of Europe. But I would install security gates, if I didn't have to go through the rigamarole and delays of going through the 'permission procedures'. (Been there, done it... Didn't take the Tshirt )

Which is why putting security boxes over the mains inlets seems a good solution. (Or switching off at the distribution box). Though I am not sure of the legality. After all there was no supply when they arrived. I cant see how they have the right to vandalise my home, to get services. (Which I have to pay for!!).

When we installed the cameras I contacted the residents management people to say there should be some kind of marking around them to highlight them... a red border, sinage etc, as frankly I had to look for them, even though I knew they were there. But they immediately refused.

Jon
Jon-Bxl is offline  
Old Apr 14th 2021, 9:24 am
  #51  
Forum Regular
 
bitmanev's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2016
Location: Vista Esuri & West Midlands
Posts: 189
bitmanev is on a distinguished road
Default Re: "Squatters" in CE

we had 'them' as neighbours for many years and they even tapped the electricity from the communal area hence running the Airco all day and night our block president didn't want to prosecute them being afraid the management company wrote to me that they were dangerous people (read it's all corrupt)
now they moved to a ground floor apartment to have a garden and occupy two parking spaces they claim to rent the place (rent for 0€ for sure) and live like kings eating out everyday and driving fancy cars
bitmanev is offline  
Old Apr 15th 2021, 7:26 am
  #52  
BE Positive
Thread Starter
 
Jon-Bxl's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,868
Jon-Bxl has a reputation beyond reputeJon-Bxl has a reputation beyond reputeJon-Bxl has a reputation beyond reputeJon-Bxl has a reputation beyond reputeJon-Bxl has a reputation beyond reputeJon-Bxl has a reputation beyond reputeJon-Bxl has a reputation beyond reputeJon-Bxl has a reputation beyond reputeJon-Bxl has a reputation beyond reputeJon-Bxl has a reputation beyond reputeJon-Bxl has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: "Squatters" in CE

Originally Posted by bitmanev View Post
we had 'them' as neighbours for many years and they even tapped the electricity from the communal area hence running the Airco all day and night our block president didn't want to prosecute them being afraid the management company wrote to me that they were dangerous people (read it's all corrupt)
now they moved to a ground floor apartment to have a garden and occupy two parking spaces they claim to rent the place (rent for 0€ for sure) and live like kings eating out everyday and driving fancy cars
Ohmigosh!!

​​​​I think we should start a crowdfunding process here. To buy them petrol so that they can get to the supermarket for food and also for warm winter coats, as the airco in the summer can make the home quite cold!


What a mess, I feel so sorry for the owners, if they are individuals (i.e not bankers) ... And the neighbours.

Jon
Jon-Bxl is offline  
Old Apr 15th 2021, 12:02 pm
  #53  
Forum Regular
 
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 163
DOWNANDOUT is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: "Squatters" in CE

Originally Posted by DOWNANDOUT View Post
Many thanks for this as its new to me. I'm checking it out with 'Spanish Property Insight ' website owner to see if this law is in place and being deployed.
Originally Posted by Thomas Bern View Post
Hi All
To my understanding there is this new law which (from september 2020) makes it much easier to get rid of squatters. Here are some first texts from an article in Fotocasa. (You will find the link below, but it´s in Spanish)
-" Through this new procedure, from the month of September of this year the Civil Guard and the National Police will be able to expel those persons who have committed burglary without resorting to judicial measures, as has happened to date. One of the main novelties of this instruction is that the 48-hour period that the forces of order had to wait to proceed with the eviction is eliminated. Now, if the crime is considered flagrant and the owner of the property proves that it legitimately belongs to him and that he does not allow anyone to be inside, the agents may expel the squatters, and may even arrest them, without the need to request judicial measures.

-" The Ministry of the Interior assures that this protocol aims to prevent, in addition to squatting itself, the appearance and consolidation of organizations and criminal groups dedicated to the usurpation of houses in order to rent or sell them fraudulently, through false contracts; a practice that has increased in recent years and has created a parallel illegal real estate market that is very difficult to control.

-" In addition to the speed with which the security forces will be able to vacate a property, this new law has another novelty: it also protects SECOND HOMES, which were previously even more unprotected than the first ones; In both, the same eviction procedure may be followed, the steps of which have been very well defined in this protocol.

Here´s the link
https://www.fotocasa.es/blog/comprav...ey-anti-ocupa/

You cannot advertise on the forum so your comment has been removed

Best regards
Thomas
This is the reply I got from Mark Stucklin

"Thanks for your message. I suspect this was just some updated guidance with no teeth. I just wrote about a case of extortion by squatters in Sitges, and the police did not follow any of the measures described in the article you sent me. I'm looking into it all, but it's difficult to find anyone who will give a definitive answer, and it will take me time to get an interview with someone who can speak for the authorities.

My property-watch technology is now ready if you are interested, but it needs a power source to run. If you have cut off the electricity you would need to instal something like a solar powered battery."

DOWNANDOUT is offline  
Old Apr 15th 2021, 1:57 pm
  #54  
Just Joined
 
Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 21
Thomas Bern has a reputation beyond reputeThomas Bern has a reputation beyond reputeThomas Bern has a reputation beyond reputeThomas Bern has a reputation beyond reputeThomas Bern has a reputation beyond reputeThomas Bern has a reputation beyond reputeThomas Bern has a reputation beyond reputeThomas Bern has a reputation beyond reputeThomas Bern has a reputation beyond reputeThomas Bern has a reputation beyond reputeThomas Bern has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: "Squatters" in CE

Originally Posted by DOWNANDOUT View Post
This is the reply I got from Mark Stucklin

"Thanks for your message. I suspect this was just some updated guidance with no teeth. I just wrote about a case of extortion by squatters in Sitges, and the police did not follow any of the measures described in the article you sent me. I'm looking into it all, but it's difficult to find anyone who will give a definitive answer, and it will take me time to get an interview with someone who can speak for the authorities.

My property-watch technology is now ready if you are interested, but it needs a power source to run. If you have cut off the electricity you would need to instal something like a solar powered battery."
Hi,
You did not clarify if your contact is a lawyer, but any established spanish lawyer should be aware of this. Anyway here´s some further info

1. The express eviction law, which is currently in force, makes it possible to speed up the process by which the owners of a home in Spain can recover it in the event that there are squatters who get into them. This is a part of Article 33 of the Spanish Constitution which recognizes the right to private property and Article 245.2 of the Penal Code establishes that whoever occupies a property, building or someone else's home without authorization and that does not constitute a dwelling, if they remain in them against the will of the owner, they will be punished.
2. NOTE! The Government has modified its own royal decree-law (Jan 21st 2021) against evictions and now demands "violence and intimidation" in order to evict the squatters BUT ONLY DURING THE STATE OF ALARM as David Lucas, secretary general of Urban Agenda and Housing of the Ministry of Transport, emphasizes to this newspaper that what the reform does is "empower the judge to consider whether or not to stop the launch after listening to social services and only until the end the alarm state "
3. If you read the article (copy and paste to google translate) you will also find info about the ALERTCOPS application which can be used by anyone (neighbours,friends, witnesses) to inform about "sguatters" Here´s a link https://play.google.com/store/apps/d...hl=en_US&gl=US

You can find more info by searching "ley contra okupas"

Best regards
Thomas


Thomas Bern is offline  
Old Apr 16th 2021, 3:23 am
  #55  
Forum Regular
 
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 163
DOWNANDOUT is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: "Squatters" in CE

Originally Posted by Thomas Bern View Post
Hi,
You did not clarify if your contact is a lawyer, but any established spanish lawyer should be aware of this. Anyway here´s some further info

1. The express eviction law, which is currently in force, makes it possible to speed up the process by which the owners of a home in Spain can recover it in the event that there are squatters who get into them. This is a part of Article 33 of the Spanish Constitution which recognizes the right to private property and Article 245.2 of the Penal Code establishes that whoever occupies a property, building or someone else's home without authorization and that does not constitute a dwelling, if they remain in them against the will of the owner, they will be punished.
2. NOTE! The Government has modified its own royal decree-law (Jan 21st 2021) against evictions and now demands "violence and intimidation" in order to evict the squatters BUT ONLY DURING THE STATE OF ALARM as David Lucas, secretary general of Urban Agenda and Housing of the Ministry of Transport, emphasizes to this newspaper that what the reform does is "empower the judge to consider whether or not to stop the launch after listening to social services and only until the end the alarm state "
3. If you read the article (copy and paste to google translate) you will also find info about the ALERTCOPS application which can be used by anyone (neighbours,friends, witnesses) to inform about "sguatters" Here´s a link https://play.google.com/store/apps/d...hl=en_US&gl=US

You can find more info by searching "ley contra okupas"

Best regards
Thomas

Hi Thomas

Mark Stucklin is not a lawyer but he seems to work with one who writes articles on his website. I do recollect there was some 'express eviction' law in place but remember that squatters also try to create fraudulent lease contracts. Therefore you will probably have to go through the courts to prove they are fake but then they can appeal and drag out proceedings for years with their 'free legal aid' . Also during the court case , they frequently sack their own free legal aid lawyers (our tenant sacked 5 lawyers) because court proceedings stop if there is no lawyer to represent them . Then there is a 10 day process to recruit another free legal aid lawyer and so it goes on and on........

In our case , the tenant created fraudulent invoices , fraudulent documents claiming that we rented our flat to him via some rental agency. He even faked documents from Spanish Govt depts (using their letter headed paper) to support his appeals. In Spanish courts you can appeal against anything , and then you can appeal against the judgement of the appeal , then it goes to another higher court . Our tenant lost his eviction case in the civil court but then appealed to a higher court who also rejected his appeal . Then he appealed against their judgement via the Supreme Court of Spain who also rejected his appeal. Then it went back to the Civil Court again who couldn't evict him because the tenant used a new law that delayed eviction if he could prove to Social Services that he was 'vulnerable' (ie. he hurt his arm and couldn't work). There are also numerous ways to cancel the eviction process via other sneaky means. One squatter can also replace another just before eviction day (with another set of fraudulent lease contracts) and then you have to start the court process again. Our tenant was actually subletting our flat to others and making a nice tidy sum but he knew that if he rented the flat out to people with children , that would also cancel the eviction . And he actually did this by renting our flat out to a mother and her 10 yr old son. The court officials turned up and couldn't progress the eviction - another 3 month delay before a new eviction date is agreed.

The Spanish courts do not check the integrity of documents provided as evidence unless your own lawyer raises questions, but that can drag out the court case even longer . I've seen articles where the squatter had faked everything to avoid eviction but that the courts usually deal out a measly fine of about 300-400 euros.

The Spanish judicial system is biased against landlords and it's just a waste of time and money. The lawyers never mention what I've said above because they want your money and once you've started the case there is no going back.
DOWNANDOUT is offline  
Old Apr 17th 2021, 2:36 am
  #56  
BE Positive
Thread Starter
 
Jon-Bxl's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,868
Jon-Bxl has a reputation beyond reputeJon-Bxl has a reputation beyond reputeJon-Bxl has a reputation beyond reputeJon-Bxl has a reputation beyond reputeJon-Bxl has a reputation beyond reputeJon-Bxl has a reputation beyond reputeJon-Bxl has a reputation beyond reputeJon-Bxl has a reputation beyond reputeJon-Bxl has a reputation beyond reputeJon-Bxl has a reputation beyond reputeJon-Bxl has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: "Squatters" in CE

Here is a message from CERA - with a phone number + details.

https://esuriresident.com/en/squatters-in-costa-esuri/

looks like its (slowly) getting worse, as its now being discussed openly on CERA....
Jon
Jon-Bxl is offline  
Old Apr 17th 2021, 4:18 pm
  #57  
BE Forum Addict
 
MikeJ's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,675
MikeJ has a reputation beyond reputeMikeJ has a reputation beyond reputeMikeJ has a reputation beyond reputeMikeJ has a reputation beyond reputeMikeJ has a reputation beyond reputeMikeJ has a reputation beyond reputeMikeJ has a reputation beyond reputeMikeJ has a reputation beyond reputeMikeJ has a reputation beyond reputeMikeJ has a reputation beyond reputeMikeJ has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: "Squatters" in CE

Originally Posted by Jon-Bxl View Post
Here is a message from CERA - with a phone number + details.

https://esuriresident.com/en/squatters-in-costa-esuri/

looks like its (slowly) getting worse, as its now being discussed openly on CERA....
Jon
I applied to the community in the proper manner to fit a security gate to my entry passage but it was turned down. I had proposed an iron gate in traditional Andulusian style. It was turned down because the AGM could not agree on a common style - indeed one member said that having a common style would make the condominium look like a council estate!! You couldn't make it up. I might try again in light of the current security threats. I know Jon had similar problems so I can empathise with him.
MikeJ is offline  
Old Apr 17th 2021, 5:33 pm
  #58  
Started off with nothing
 
missile's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 4,870
missile has a reputation beyond reputemissile has a reputation beyond reputemissile has a reputation beyond reputemissile has a reputation beyond reputemissile has a reputation beyond reputemissile has a reputation beyond reputemissile has a reputation beyond reputemissile has a reputation beyond reputemissile has a reputation beyond reputemissile has a reputation beyond reputemissile has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: "Squatters" in CE

You might want to fit a security door?
missile is offline  
Old Apr 17th 2021, 5:45 pm
  #59  
BE Forum Addict
 
MikeJ's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,675
MikeJ has a reputation beyond reputeMikeJ has a reputation beyond reputeMikeJ has a reputation beyond reputeMikeJ has a reputation beyond reputeMikeJ has a reputation beyond reputeMikeJ has a reputation beyond reputeMikeJ has a reputation beyond reputeMikeJ has a reputation beyond reputeMikeJ has a reputation beyond reputeMikeJ has a reputation beyond reputeMikeJ has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: "Squatters" in CE

Originally Posted by missile View Post
You might want to fit a security door?
I do have a high security front door with multiple securing bolts and a registered hardened steel lock. But I'm not sure how well it would stand up to a determined attack with crowbar/club hammer etc.
I want to get some visible deterents so that the squatter look somewhere easier.
MikeJ is offline  
Old Apr 18th 2021, 8:48 am
  #60  
BE Positive
Thread Starter
 
Jon-Bxl's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,868
Jon-Bxl has a reputation beyond reputeJon-Bxl has a reputation beyond reputeJon-Bxl has a reputation beyond reputeJon-Bxl has a reputation beyond reputeJon-Bxl has a reputation beyond reputeJon-Bxl has a reputation beyond reputeJon-Bxl has a reputation beyond reputeJon-Bxl has a reputation beyond reputeJon-Bxl has a reputation beyond reputeJon-Bxl has a reputation beyond reputeJon-Bxl has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: "Squatters" in CE

Originally Posted by MikeJ View Post
I do have a high security front door with multiple securing bolts and a registered hardened steel lock. But I'm not sure how well it would stand up to a determined attack with crowbar/club hammer etc.
I want to get some visible deterents so that the squatter look somewhere easier.
Crazy that one has to go through all this hullabaloo! Ive seen security grills all over and frankly it doesn't bother me at all... they are probably 'illegal' re 'the rules'... But so common in Spain. The 'council estate' comments are really unnaceptable .. and so very subjective.

I also dont mind if people e.g window-in their terraces, but that causes waves with 'the management'. I guess I am not a fan of enforced standardisation in my home... Or the tedious process one has to go through... Whilst others just do it... What's that old saying? "Its better to ask for forgiveness, than permission"!

However I think that M1,2+4 have standardised (so accepted) models. I'll be checking this week...

Jon

Last edited by Jon-Bxl; Apr 18th 2021 at 8:50 am.
Jon-Bxl is offline  

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.