wirt0

Hi EuroTrash,

In that case, the Autonomo way with a fixed salary seems like the best option.

Lets imagine a salary of 30,000 pounds, your employer is actually paying 33014 pounds.

If you were to use an Autonomo account, WITHOUT discounts, it would be:

33014/12 = 2751.16£, 3143. euros

If you were going to bill montly your company for 3143 euros, you would get as a net pay 2207.92 euros ( 3143 - ( SS 275 + IRPF 660) ).

So 2207 euros vs 2263 euros that you would earn in the UK. So a similar salary, although you would need to do some paperwork as an autonomo.

But I am pretty sure that Jame's approach must be a workable solution.

EuroTrash

Well I can't comment on that. I know that in France, a person working for one company and being paid a fixed salary would be on very dodgy ground trying to claim they were self employed. I think it's been mentioned earlier in the thread that even the UK isn't happy with this (IR35?). But I don't know the rules for Autonomo and have no idea if Spain fusses about things like this in any case from what I have heard it tends not to so you may be OK doing that.
(When I applied for my CDS in France I had to show quarterly turnover for my self employment going back 5 years, as well as annual tax returns. If it had said exactly the same turnover figure every quarter I would have expected them to ask questions because no self employed person ever turns over exactly the same amount month in month out.)

Loafing Along

Yes Spain "fusses" about such things as well. Companies that employ Autonomos normally will do so only for 11 months at a time or concratually insert some other means of ensuring that the Autonomo could not be considered a full-time employee. Unless they act carefully in this way they become vulnerable to possible action in the Labour courts , where they invariably lose and get stuck with all back payments of direct employee Social Security payments and a fine.

wirt0

I have been checking Spanish forums and some of them suggest the path Fred James suggest (employed by UK company).

Others, suggest the self employed.

If I am self employed I dont think that the IR35 will be an issue because I will not be living in the UK, so I am not paying taxes in the UK. I guess they dont expect me to have to relocate. Regarding in Spain, I would be doing the job for a UK company, so I am not avoiding paying taxes into a spanish company.
It would have sense to me if it was in the same country, but well, sometimes this things do not follow logic.

I guess that the 11 month trick could do it, just in case, thanks for the advice.

Fred James

wirt0

Sorry James, didn't want to say that you suggested that, just to do the way you explained it before.

I have edit my post to remove it.

EuroTrash

I don't know what you mean by "I am not avoiding paying taxes into a spanish company3.

The logic is most countries is, that as a self employed person you pay a small amount of SS per month and that is all.
As an employee, your employer pays employer contributions and you pay employee contributions, and between you, in total the amount you put into the national SS system is very significantly higher.
That is why most countries crack down on what is often called "concealed employment", ie when a person who is actually an employee claims to be self employed. Because if they let everyone do this, their SS system would be massively under funded.
In your case I don't imagine the UK would be bothered but Spain might.

chrisjolly

wirt0

Fred James

This is the form used to get certain income paid gross. As I said before, this is for pension income, not earned income.

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/gds/paye/atta...pain_indiv.pdf

wirt0

Thanks Fred,

Yes for what I understand, all the documentation related to the model 720 and similar are related to pensions, dividends, and income over properties, but not about employment wages.

I've just found the following article from an Spanish bank:
https://www.bbva.com/es/tributar-trabaja-extranjero/

To give an insight, this would apply ONLY if all your work is carried out abroad (in the UK), and you pay taxes in the UK.

tornoacasa

I am in a similar situation on UK and Italy and I was thinking of keeping my tax residency in UK as well as in Italy spending 7~8 per month in UK.

See Statutory Residence Test from the gov uk web site (I cannot post URLs as yet)

Could this be an idea?

Smithy73

Setting up as Autonomo is easy - a good tax advising Gestor can do the whole thing for you.
We find it less hassle than running the UK Ltd that we also have.
You get tax relief on the social security payment with your income tax, so in reality you pay out less here in Spain than being a ltd company in the UK now.Image getting tax relief on the employers and employees part of the NI!

Smithy73

Smithy73

This works better if you actually own the UK Ltd company - It doesn´t work very well if you are just employed.

Technically if the work is done in Spain you are supposed to be employed or self employed here, but I think because the job markets of the southern European countries are much more fragmented than the more organised north it´s not so clear cut.
For instance you can´t just move here and get employment in your field of work, even if you are fluent in the language, like you can in France or Germany!

I am registered as autonomo here as we have a business. My partner is a UK company director and we both receive an income from this company in the form of a UK salary. My partner does some part time work for this salary, internet based and I do none.
The tax specialist at the Gestor just wanted the pay slips to prove what had been paid so that we could declare the income here... that was all.

Since the autonomo fee is tax deductible, billing the UK company might be worth your while...but this only works if you are say a freelancer and own the UK company.

If you are employed by a company, you may look at your tax take in the UK and say that Spain is expensive, but if you own a Ltd company in the UK... You will be looking at the tax take, two different payments for NI (employer and employee), corporation tax, income tax and dividend taxes and saying that the UK has been come a very expensive place!
If you have a viable business here in Spain, because the autonomo fee is tax deductible - the average person will pay less tax here than a business owner in the UK doing the same work.

Imagine the employers and employees NI contributions being tax deductible in the UK!! It´s not really up to the Gestor to say that you must be autonomo and bill your UK employer, if this isn´t going to work from the employers point of you.
In reality I have not know anyone ask, "where was the work done for this income?" As most people here just assume people are happy to have some kind of work and an income... and you are declaring the income.
I don´t know really how best to advise, other than speak to another Gestor.
It´s easier if you are a limited company owner