Lagoo

The only thing I can add to bobd22's list is gym membership which can be got for £20-25/month in London but the cheapest I found here was 40€/month. But yes most other things are cheaper. Nowadays I wince at the price of a London coffee!

Loafing Along

Taxes

amideislas

I haven't been taxed in the UK for more than 30 years, so I wouldn't have a point of reference.

My main point of reference is Germany, where taxes are higher, and the finazamt (tax authorities) are very (very!) hawkish. They will take as much as they can get, and you always have to fight them. And filing taxes is complicated. That's why virtually anybody living in Germany pays a "steuerberater" (accountant, tax advisor).

Spain however, is easy by comparison, there's lots of deductions, and I haven't found hacienda to be particularly hawkish. Never had to fight anything (yet). But we do have a good gestor who's inexpensive and handles everything, and always gets as many deductions as he can. Considering how surprisingly good the public infrastructure is here, I really don't feel overtaxed.

bobd22

For Mr or Mrs average I would say income tax is far simpler in UK with the PAYE system versus Spain. I would guess individual circumstances differ widely so straight comparison difficult overall. I pay my tax to UK for pensions apart from state pension as crown pensions so it works to my benefit.

Loafing Along

Could not agree with you more on Germany - they take as much as possible and then expect you to claim it back. If you don't good for them.Also agree with your opinion on Hacienda. My point is that the rates are higher than UK . As for the infrastructure excellent but a lot of it paid out of EU funds, look for the blue sign on the motorways. All beside the point the comment was in response to find something higher in Spain in cost and Income Tax is one

amideislas

I can't speak for the rest of Spain, but the Balearics receive precious little infrastructure funding from the EU (blue signs are extremely rare). The vast majority of it comes from tourist tax and other tourist revenues, such as the taxes that hotels and other tourism related businesses generate.

Also, there's been quite a bit of private investment in say, telecom infrastructure. Telefonica basically refused to invest in data communications here, and several startup companies have invested millions in internet communications. As a result, virtually everywhere has 100mb fibre, and excellent 4G coverage. 5G coverage has been announced for early next year. Needless to say, Telefonica is pretty much the big loser in terrestrial infrastructure. They're just another mobile company now.

Fred James

Really? As far as I can see down here, Movistar have 600mb fibre everywhere. We live 2km out of town in the campo and have 600mb.

amideislas

Perhaps. But here, they lost that battle to conectabalear. I believe you can get 600mb from them, but 100mb is the basic package and well, it's more than most people need really. Still, about a month ago, Movistar (Telefonica) asked us permission to put fiber across our property. So maybe they've woken up from their slumber. A little late though, everybody already has it, and it's cheap.

Barriej

We have a flat in a tiny town not far from La Nucia and we have been visiting the area for about 15 years. I only recently found out that there is a 'british shop' in town....

We never shop in the big supermarkets, always in the local shops (same as here in the Uk) and I find the prices to be on average 20% cheaper than the Uk, however fresh fruit and veg is a lot better in quality, don't get me started on the seafood (and we live 200 yards from the sea in the UK)

amideislas

Yes, we know. It's a quality of life thing.

The restaurants here serve great food too. Many times when we've had visitors, we go out to eat, have a fabulous meal in places oozing with charm, and when the bill comes, our guests assume something must be wrong. That's all?

Stop at the local bar on the village square, have drinks and snacks until midnight. Bill comes, and it's 20€. For 4 persons.

​​​​​​But then, you go to the tourist resorts (or expat communities) - about 20 mins away - Have a mediocre meal with watered down drinks, lousy service, and void of charm (other than maybe a sea view), and when the bill comes, you also think something must be wrong. That much? Really?

​​​​​​And here, out in the campo, the neighbours are all adorable. Nicest, friendliest people you could ever hope for. And you don't need to worry if you didn't lock the doors. Crime is all but nonexistent.

Quality of life. I hope it stays that way.

On second thought.... No, it's not a good place to live. You won't be happy. Nothing to see here.

Vinny17

"Your figure of 400,000 is both out of date and misleading but whatever the number is I'm at something of a loss to understand why it is you think Spain stands to lose them eitber before Dec 31st. or after?"



Been away for awhile. I had not meant to imply that Spain needed UK expats, or that UK expats would suddenly leave on December 31st. I wasn't suggesting that Spain would roll up the sidewalks if all the Brits left town.

I guess my point was that many countries are looking to attract new immigrants. The OP seemed worried that he and his wife needed to get this done right away - my comment and impression is that regardless of Brexit and the lack of clarity right now - retirees from many parts of the world will continue to be be welcomed in Spain post December 31st.

The non-lucrative visa would work for many with a solid application, should Brexit negotiations not work. The Spanish PM is on record as saying that as long as the UK is plays fair with the 100,000 Spaniards in the UK, they will be fair to the 250,000? - 400,000 Brits in Spain.

I clearly misquoted my numbers and so I apologize. Seems like 400,000 was the number in 2012, but perhaps since Modelo 720 that has dropped the "official resident" number to 250,000 now. Some may have dropped off the radar.

Cheers

Barriej

I don't know i think the 400,000 was referring to the number of holiday homes owned by Brits in Spain. This figure was mentioned the other day when Spain announced that they would not expect Brits to self isolate upon arrival.

I think the figure of Uk legal residents in Spain is around 160,000 with maybe 30 or 40 thousand unregistered. (this is my best guess as there doesn't seem to be any official figures that I can easily find)

amideislas

Look, Brits aren't going to suddenly stop coming to Spain, and even if they did, the impact would be minor. Most tourism businesses expect some decrease in both British tourism and particularly Brits coming to Spain to become resident (at least after Dec 31).

Around here, Brits have been selling up for some time now, but at least some of that is due to the private let laws that are now being enforced, which, prior to that facilitated letting out your holiday flat to tourists without declaring or paying any income tax, free of any basic standard requirements or liability insurances, effectively paying their mortgages and giving them some weeks of "nearly free" holiday in Mallorca, while paying for their flat. But that's not happening anymore, and the whole plan is now untenable.

If you want to move to Spain, it's just wise to do it before Dec 31. Otherwise, it's going to become a lot more tedious for the average Britain in the sun wannabe.

EuroTrash

I'm not even sure it will. Obviously it depends on the process for securing permanent residency in Spain as a Brit who moved before Brexit, but if Spain implements the same process as other EU countries, which I guess it will have to under EU rules, then anyone who moves now, will have to apply for a temporary residence card first, and then submit an application for their permanent residence card in 2025 with evidence that they've met the conditions consistently for 5 years.
Whereas folk who move as TCNs make an intial visa application for a long stay visitor visa or whatever, which isn't too complicated, and after that it's a formality to renew your cds year on year for as long as you want to stay.
For anyone who's already lived in Spain for 5 years it's different because you get your permanent residence card straight away.

stevesainty

Not necessarily more tedious, but the income requirement for 3rd country nationals would preclude UK couples whose only income is two UK old age pensions, whereas if they applied before 31 December 2020 as EU citizens it would not.