jdr

Mine is alright, cos it don`t work

lynnxa

I knew that would wake you up

paintermujer

Yeeess!

Thankyou so much.

bil

The problem is in defining fluency. Fluent and accurate is the aim. You can learn from other people by immersing yourself in the native speaking arena, but should those examples be using poor grammar, you will at best be fluent, but ungrammatical.

Imagine learning English from chavs and pikeys. Not a pretty concept.

If you learn the grammar of a language, you can better understand why things are said the way that they are.

Look how many English can't even use their own language correctly.

lynnxa

that is what you are doing - asking the waiter to ask the barman to pour your beer - or asking the chef to cook your meal

pedir - to ask for

what do you say if a waiter comes up to you for your order & you have already ordered?

around here we say 'he (hemos) pedido' = I (we) have ordered

it's what I was originally taught by my spanish teacher (a sevillana), what I hear in bars & restaurants, and what I frequently come across in text books for teaching spanish - of which I have quite a lot


- genuinely

lynnxa

I've been thinking about this fluency concept

I don't claim to be fluent in spanish - but I can chat about everyday things on a daily basis perfectly comfortably

I have studied grammar - and am still studying - my spanish is a mix of 'street' & 'correct' - a bit like my english!

I know how the tenses work and will use them all where appropriate when writing- but comfortably use probably half of them in conversation

but what is fluent?

I'm OK with medical stuff in both languages - but it's something which interests me

Food - pretty good in spanish - though I can't claim to know the spanish word for everything - but I probably couldn't name a lot of fish in english, either!

I couldn't go to a garage to get a car repaired & discuss what is required - but then I couldn't do that in english - I know nothing about cars!

in both languages there would be a lot of pointing & talking about 'that thing that does this' and so on..............


so no, I wouldn't claim to be fluent in spanish


but then - am I fluent in english


I still can't decide what constitutes fluency

paintermujer

Ive been thinking about the teaching aspect and that you said to teach you just need to know more than your pupil/s.

I agree with you.

My husband and daughter have been on the 123teach you suggested(excellent by the way).

My husband has finished his first year of learning and our daughter dosent know too much but the two of them together on that site was great. Guy was helping her with his limited knowledge and she was learning from him.

So there you go.

JLFS

[QUOTE=lynnxa;7847251]I've been thinking about this fluency concept

I don't claim to be fluent in spanish - but I can chat about everyday things on a daily basis perfectly comfortably

I have studied grammar - and am still studying - my spanish is a mix of 'street' & 'correct' - a bit like my english!

I know how the tenses work and will use them all where appropriate when writing- but comfortably use probably half of them in conversation

but what is fluent?

I'm OK with medical stuff in both languages - but it's something which interests me

Food - pretty good in spanish - though I can't claim to know the spanish word for everything - but I probably couldn't name a lot of fish in english, either!

I couldn't go to a garage to get a car repaired & discuss what is required - but then I couldn't do that in english - I know nothing about cars!

in both languages there would be a lot of pointing & talking about 'that thing that does this' and so on..............


so no, I wouldn't claim to be fluent in spanish


but then - am I fluent in english


I still can't decide what constitutes fluency[/QUOTE

I consider my self to be fluent in both languages, for me fluency consists of being able to understand and be understood all of the time.

If I find myself in a medical situation, for example and dont understand what a certain procedure is, the word and meaning might be alien to me and to many other native speakers, but fluency still exists.

Not all doctors know all the embroidery terms, but they are still fluent speakers.

I would class fluency not so much as knowing all the words in any language (an impossible task), but not having to think about what you are saying, when it just flows.
Like driving a car, if you have to sit and think ,Clutch, gear etc, you are not quite a driver.

I find that most of words I dont know or cannot explain what or where they are, I dont know in either language.

I also know a lot of words for example spleen/bazo in both languages, but would not know what shape, or what its function is in the human body. I do know you can live without one, but that is about it. I would have to ask a doctor in both languages to explain. But I am sure that this happens with Germans in Germany too.

People often ask me about fish, I may know the name in Spanish but I could not point to one to save my life.

JLFS

What is the word in English for "the metal posts attatched to thick rope to direct people or prevent them from entering certain areas".

They are usually seen indoors, in theatres, art galleries and statley homes. A tempory movable barrier, is the best description I can think of.

Cheers

lynnxa

well I reckon I'm getting there then

lynnxa

we udes to call the 'rope posts' - but I expect there is a more technical name!

Veleta

Years ago I remember being told the percentage of vocabulary that the average person knows in their MOTHER TONGUE and it was surprisingly low. Only somewhere in the region of 7%.

But when you factor in all the technical vocabulary in a language (medical, anatomical, scientific, informatical, botanical, etc, etc) it's not really surprising.

So you can be fluent in a language despite only knowing less than 10% of the vocab.

bil

Again, it's all down to how you define it.

I'd say a good grasp of all the tenses, a good knowledge of grammar, a decent vocabulary, and most of all, when talking to native speakers, you can grasp fully what they are saying.