bil

Y'now matt, I'm back here 5 minutes, and here you are jumping on me again. You seem so desperate to criticise anyone you see as a potential rival that you post away without even reading what is written, or even worse, thinking about it.

Hell, I flagged it load and clear that it was a trap, and in you walk.

BTW, congratulations on the post rate! You must have the highest post per day rate of anyone on this board, and then there's the other boards you post on too. Beats me how the hell you find the time, really it does.

Keep going with your precious, my little gollum, and soon enough you will score even more points!! Crow on the dunghill with all your might, my dear, because no-one else cares.

Me, I have a life, a business to run and so on, so 'll leave you to it.

By the way, why don't you read the post a little more carefully, and see if you can work out what I was getting at.

bil

Yeah, I thought that might shut you up, you nasty, ignorant little gollum.

Now, if we can get back to a pleasant, interesting discussion without snide remarks and desperate point scoring, I'd appreciate it.

My point in saying what I did was this.

According to George Orwell's book, the Russian communist element took control of the revolution in Catalunya, destroying the original movement which was described as honest, egalitarian and decent, and replacing it with the 1984 style totalitarian movement.

Had that corrupted revolution then beaten Franco, the Russians would have had a series of warm water ports, and a communist Spain under the Russian yoke might have been a far nastier place than even Franco made it.

Any thoughts?

rugbymatt

Where did I insult you?

Where did I attack you??

Where did I get into a name calling??

... and WHAT has my post count got to do with this discussion!?

cricketman

Yes you nicely backed up what I said in my last post. The trouble with fighting war is it costs money. If you believe in the power of the small collective as the Catalans did i.e. power to the people who actually live in the village. You aint got any money to fight the great big dirty fascists, or ward off the great big dirty commies - or nowadays, keep out the dirty great global capatilists

As other posters have noted, the war is being fought by these same people nowadays on a cultural level. Hence the importance of Catalan to the Catalans and Valenciano for Valencia. There is even a big pro-Asturian language movement in Asturias where there hasnt ever being a written tradition of the langauge or much opression of their culture.

There are 2 goals for this. One to stick two fingers up at Spain and declare their regional identify proudly - and two (possible the most important one) to make local society more insular, so in future generations it will be easier for their children to get jobs and very difficult for outsiders. e.g. the regional language becomes essential for all jobs especially in the public sector. Barcelona is a case in point

bil

I'm all for regional identity. I particularly hate to see a language die out, as with it will die a whole way of looking at the world.

What's that old joke? A language is a dialect with an army to back it up.

My view of the Catalan revolution was that it appeared to be one of the true, honest and decent strivings to promote equality.

The far right and the far left are almost equally nasty.

I defy anyone to realistically point out a difference between them. What's the difference between Mao, Stalin, Hitler, Pol Pot and so on.

Different sides of the same coin, methinks.

Relampago

The " franquismo " has never figured in the books of the schools. For a part, I say that should appear in the books this period of our history, so that young people learn what happened really, but for other part I consider that the " franquismo " is an abortion of our history (as the " nazismo " was of Germany, like told me a german friend ) and I don't know if should appear in the history books

Is a dilemma

Dick Dasterdly

Definitely a dilemma Relampago.
However it is different issue to that in Germany which I think has largely come to terms with the past, because it has generally been possible to adopt a fairly common point of view.
I agree its best these things are in the open and fully understood, partly in the hope it doesnt happen again.
However in the case here,because it was Spaniard against Spaniard there is always the risk that some of the younger generation may not look on it without bias, possibly partly influenced by older family members,and a certain amount of animosity or bad feeling could occur from those with opposing political opinions, which in turn could open up old wounds or even worse create new ones.
Definitely a Dilemma.
Maybe it is best left on the back boiler for quite a few more years before discussing it fully in school.