Tiebreaker

Hi

I'm thinking about buying a holiday home in Spain - I would like to spend up to 6 months of the year there - but staying under the 183 day rule because I want to stay non resident.

The only thing that confuses me is the temporary absence rule - I know that if I spend more than 183 days in another country, I will not be affected - Spain will deduct temporary absences when calculating total length of stay during a calendar year - but I will probably not be spending more than 183 days in the UK or any other country.

The problem is this - if I wanted to spend winters in Spain - say from October to March - because the Spanish tax year is a calendar year, they would consider that I had spent 12 months in Spain - if they consider the 6 months spent outside the country from April to September as only a 'temporary absence'.

Now I know Spain will consider an absence of a few days or weeks - maybe even up to 2-3 months - as a 'temporary absence' - and I agree that is fair - but 6 months seems like a pretty long term permanent absence to me.

Does anyone know exactly how the Spanish tax man defines a temporary absence?

The only solution to the problem I can see is to stay in Spain for 6 months from January to June instead - this would be perfectly legal

You can stay for 6 months from January to June - but you can't stay for 6 months from October to March - This law is stupid!

I'm hoping that an absence of say 6 months or more would not be defined as temporary - it's the only way that the rules would make sense

jdr

You are confusing me, so you must be confusing yourself.

Who`s going to check ?.

You will only be a resident if you apply for residencia in Spain.

If need be get a cheap flight to UK to break it up as you want ?

Maybe your answer is here...
http://spainexpat.com/

Tiebreaker

Who`s going to check ?

Well nobody probably, but if you do spend more than 183 days in Spain - and somebody who knows you decides to let the tax man know, you are in trouble.

I prefer to play by the rules and sleep at night

The tax man does not have an obligation to prove you spent more than 183 days there - it is your responsibility to prove that you did not - in other words, you are guilty unless proven innocent!

So you should always ask for your passport to be stamped when you leave the country

You will only be a resident if you apply for residencia in Spain.

True, but you will be resident for tax purposes if you spend more than 183 days in Spain - whether you have applied for a residencia or not

Otherwise all the tax exiles in the world would just live in Spain without applying for residence!

If need be get a cheap flight to UK to break it up as you want ?

You can't break up a stay by going to the UK - that's the whole point of the temporary absence rule - to try to claw people into the spanish tax net

For example ...

From January to March you spend 90 days in Spain - you then return to England for 30 days - You then spend another 90 days in Spain during May, June, July

Now you have physically spent only 180 days in Spain - under the 183 day limit - but the tax rules say that the temporary absence of 30 days will be ignored.

So for tax purposes, you are deemed to have been resident in Spain for 210 days - and therefore liable to tax on your worldwide income - whether you have a residencia or not.

The question I am asking is ......

If I was resident for 90 days from January to March - and also resident for 90 days from October to December - with an absence of 6 months between the two stays ...

Would Spain regard the 6 month absence as temporary, and therefore for tax purposes I have been resident for 12 months - in the same way that they disregard the 30 day absence in the first example above?

I need to know if absences above a certain length are not regarded as temporary - if so, they would only count the days you have actually spent in Spain.

Maybe your answer is here...
http://spainexpat.com/

Tried it, but no luck I'm afraid

jdr

Not being harsh but you must be the only person worrying about this.

By the time you sort this out, they will have changed the rules anyway, they change as quick as bar owners

I thought as an EU citizen you can move about the EU as you want.

Surely the Spanish taxman will only be interested if you have an income from Spain, ie, work here. Or rent out your holiday home.

I am surprised there is no help to you on that link, it covers most things of importance in Spain.

Tiebreaker

I thought as an EU citizen you can move about the EU as you want.

Yes, that's true - but the tax you pay depends on the country you are deemed to be tax resident in - and that depends on how much time you spend in any country.

I am planning to leave the UK and become non resident - so I won't be paying UK taxes - this is why I don't want to spend too much time in Spain and fall into their tax net

Surely the Spanish taxman will only be interested if you have an income from Spain, ie, work here. Or rent out your holiday home.

Non residents are only taxed on Spanish source income as you describe above - but residents are taxed on their worldwide income.

This is the whole point of my problem - I need to be certain that I am considered non resident in Spain, and therefore only taxed on my Spanish source income (which would be almost zero)

I don't want the Spanish tax man touching my worldwide income!

I'm sure that there are many people staying in Spain over the 183 day limit and not worrying about it - and many of them get away with it.

A lot do it without realising, because they don't know about the temporary absence rule - I have read about lots of people who have been landed with tax bills because they have been deemed to have spent more than 183 days in Spain

Of course, many people who are living in Spain do not have foreign source income - so for people like that it does not matter if they are deemed to be tax resident in Spain.

But if you have a substantial income coming from a foreign source - be aware of the rules - or you may have to hand over a huge chunk of it!

This DOES happen to people who believe themselves to be non resident in Spain - it is something that you should plan properly to avoid.

XXPEBXX

Hola !!

Look at website for Fundacion Instituto de Propietarios Extranjeros

www.fipe.org

Click on Short Informations - choose language - select Taxes

I have not heard of a temporary absence rule - who told you about this ? I spend 4 to 6 months a year in Spain all at odd times - 2 weeks 1 month 2 months etc . and would be interested to know

For non residents tax representation is obligatory ( Accountant / Lawyer etc )

I already pay wealth tax and a tax on notional rental letting ( payable even if you do not rent the property out ) ..

Regards

:scared:

Chiclanagir

I am totally confused.

Can anyone tell me about my situation.

I will be resident in Spain but will have income from proeprty in UK of £6,500 per year. If and where do I pay tax?

XXPEBXX

Re UK Tax position - why not phone Inland Revenue in UK - say you are 'thinking' of moving and ask what the position is re your UK income ...
There could be double taxation relief etc.

XXPEBXX

Looked at your earlier messages again :scared:

You will not be resident in UK - pay no UK tax on income from property - yes ???

Not resident in Spain ie less than 183 days - yes ???

Is the idea to keep moving and pay no taxes ??? What a good idea

Someone somewhere will want to tax you .......

Good luck

pathfinder

like much of spanish tax law there is no defined period. That would be left open to interpretation.

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Hope this of use
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