Re: Is Spain about to disintegrate??
 

who cares i!! ts 28,000 people on a tiny bit of land.the town across the border has 70,000 in it .

Re: Is Spain about to disintegrate??
 

Following the fall of Barcelona on 11 September 1714, the "special status" of the territories belonging to the former Crown of Aragon and its institutions was abolished by the Nueva Planta decrees, under which all its lands were incorporated to the Crown as provinces, within a united Spanish administration, as Spain moved towards a centralised government under the new Bourbon dynasty.

sounds to me like they were invaded by the spanish ...300 years ago ...
makes you laugh ppl banging on about the 28,000 British subjects on gibralter and how they should be allowed to flog cheap fags and electrics,
and then slag down 8,000,000 people for wanting to do the same ...total double standard,hope you dont do the same to the scots next year or they will be off into the rebulic of alba

Re: Is Spain about to disintegrate??
 

The amount of bad press over the years over the housing scams in Spain has driven thousands upon thousands of would be buyers away, I don't know if this is to blame for Spains woes, but if it is, or has played any part, they only have themselves to blame.

off topic
 

the lack of housing in the uk and the mad asking prices for buildings that are falling apart being over 150 years old ,gave people large sums of money to spend in spain on very badly built dwellings .these complexes will turn back into dust over the next 50 years,as are some of those from the 60´s that i have been working on. my house was built in 1950 and is solid concrete and rock ....cost me nothing to buy.i m still here,those who brought ´with pool´´ have long gone back to the smog and crime .

Re: Is Spain about to disintegrate??
 

Strange days these.....

Re: Is Spain about to disintegrate??
 

with all 70,000 wanting to be living on that tiny bit of land
:rofl:

Re: Is Spain about to disintegrate??
 

I doubt if it has had much difference. A few thousand British immigrants more or less don't have that much effect on the Spanish economy! But it would certainly be a good thing if the current government kept the promise made by the last one, and introduced a law to say that no property could be sold without independently validated paperwork.

Re: Is Spain about to disintegrate??
 

There are a growing number of separatists here in Mallorca (or the Balearics in general) as well.

The argument is that whilst we enjoy one of the best economies in Spain, the Balearics are obliged to spread that wealth to Madrid, where it's perceived to be orders of magnitude more corrupt than the Balearics (who are no angels themselves).

Whilst this is not anywhere near as important or pubicised as Catalonia or the Basque country, it's a rapidly growing sentiment here, and I believe and if the rhetoric continues from other regions, independence will likely become a major political issue here as well.

The general mindset is that if independence were to ever happen, they would declare themselves an independent island state like Malta, but would be keen to retain membership in the EU.

This seems to reflect the mood all over Spain at the moment.

Just for fun, I think they should become an offshore tax haven, outside of the EU. Then just watch the money pour in :-)

Of course that won't happen; The sentiment amongst the population is that they want a purely socialist state, where people only work if they feel like it, and we all get everything for free, which of course isn't sustainable without taxing everything to death.

Re: Is Spain about to disintegrate??
 

Surely if Catalunya became independent then the Balearics would become part of Catalunya?

Thats what I have always assumed

Re: Is Spain about to disintegrate??
 

Well, that might be the best route for them... but the Mallorquins really aren't that keen on "Spanish" rule. Never have been.

No, obviously Catalunya isn't "Spain", but really, about the only thing the Balearics share with Catalunya is a unique dialect of Catalan...

Re: Is Spain about to disintegrate??
 

And a shared history and culture

I have a very good friend from Girona, and he often talks fondly about his "cousins" in the Balearics, where his family originally comes from. He coudnt be more Catalan, but sees the Balearics as part of Catalunya

Re: Is Spain about to disintegrate??
 

Perhaps so, but I can assure you that the Balearics don't believe they "belong" to anyone...

In fact, if you play the "EU" card in the event you find yourself in a debate about your rights as an EU citizen, the guardia civil here will confidently remind you that this is NOT the EU, but an autonomous region which makes it's own laws. Yes, just that arrogant.

Technically, the Balearics are an autonomous region and not a part of Catalunya. But it is part of the EU, despite what they might tell you.

Re: Is Spain about to disintegrate??
 

One of the most sensible articles on the Eurozone I've read in a long time.

http://www.businessinsider.com/there...isnt-it-2012-9

Re: Is Spain about to disintegrate??
 

Best football team though, lol

Re: Is Spain about to disintegrate??
 

Good article but I fear it will fall on deaf ears and the road to self destruct for the poorer countries hooked into the Euro will continue.
At least a few of them had enough sense to treat it like the poisoned chalice it really would have been for them also.
I could never see it working from the start, one of the dumbest ideas of all time in my book but I guess some had their ulterior motives.

Re: Is Spain about to disintegrate??
 

eh no ... who i hell wants to live in gibralter one side has 24 hour darkness coz of the rock and the other is aboout as big as a branch of tescos with boats ???
they dont offer free health care for everyone arriving or a coucil house ,its not england..

Re: Is Spain about to disintegrate??
 

Which part of the west midlands do you live??

Re: Is Spain about to disintegrate??
 

1.the GUARDA CIVIL are NATIONAL SPANISH MILITARY POLICE and they cant serve where they are from so NONE OF THEM in mallorca are from there
so none of em are going to wave a INDEPENDENCE flag so thats just amade up story
2.EVERWHERE in spain is a autonomous region region ...whats your point??
3.CATALAN is an OFFICAL LANGUAGE .. bit of a give a way that

Re: Is Spain about to disintegrate??
 

OK, if you wish, but they still will claim EU law is secondary to their own laws.

Not part of Catalunya, as some would like to imply currently exists or would be a natural political or geographic progression.

Yes, and Mallorquín (an odd dialect of Catalan) is the official language written in documents from say, the local town council. Even if you are fluent in Catalan, you might have some difficulty understanding this dialect. So, what's your point?

Re: Is Spain about to disintegrate??
 

It won't be just the Brits who were put off buying though will it, the Germans, French, Italians, everyone, I can imagine it has had a disastrous effect on the Spanish building trade and economy. I might be wrong, what do you think?

Re: Is Spain about to disintegrate??
 

Of course the British, Scandinavians, Germans have an effect on the economy on the coastal provinces. If they weren't there there would be a knock on effect, less airport workers down to less gardeners and millions of euros not spent on local suppliers, a downward spiral. Didn't you study even basic economics:blink:

Re: Is Spain about to disintegrate??
 

Bound to have an affect as you say. Five years ago in the village where our house is the expats 2 or 3 nights a week would fill the bars restaurants. These days you see the odd couple. You are not telling me the bar/restaurant owners are not affected by this? Then there is the businesses in the area a lot of expats have gone back you are not telling me this hasn't affected them? Tax receipts to the village council gone down certainly you see a big difference in the immediate area.
They may get by but that is not the point they need the income doesn't anyone?

Re: Is Spain about to disintegrate??
 

it is rumoured the Russians aren't put off one little bit
have even seen adds around on the internet advising homeowners wanting to sell to make contact as they have active Russian buyers and thousands of properties are wanted
:frown:

Re: Is Spain about to disintegrate??
 

most of our ex-ex-pats have lasted 8 years give or take, the children have grown up, the house is only worth half of what it was bought for, so they are getting out.
the days of the super rich Brits are long gone

went to see a house the other day, the English couple said they wanted €200k for it - but its advertised on a Spanish agents website for €175k.
do they think I just got off the bannana boat
:frown:

Re: Is Spain about to disintegrate??
 

That my be the case, but the arse has dropped out of the Spanish building trade, unless the programmes they keep showing on UK tv are incorrect, they keep showing these huge new build ghost towns, unfinished due to the builders going bankrupt. I hope the Russian invasion is the start of things picking up for Spain.

Re: Is Spain about to disintegrate??
 

yeah ok so there are some ghost towns never occupied, or airports never seen a plane

but.......the media keep trotting out the same fotos with different words.

My advice to Rajoy is to counter every single piece of negative press with 2 or even 3 pieces of positive press.
Although I understand he has stopped taking English lessons, can't make up his mind if he should carry on or switch to Russian
:rofl:

Re: Is Spain about to disintegrate??
 

Hate to say this, as they inherited an amazingly bad situation from the previous govt., but Rajoy gives the impression of being someone completely out of his depth. Unless of course, that's the impression he wants to give.
I agree about the counter policy - I'm waiting for the call from Moncloa right now ;)

Re: Is Spain about to disintegrate??
 

Sorry, but you have a rather lop-sided view of the country! The expat zones in coastal provinces are a very small part of Spain as a whole. Not insignificant, of course, but the vast majority of the country's economy is based on tourism, agriculture and manufacturing -not looking after expats' gardens ... :D

The building boom which collapsed in 2008 catered mainly for Spaniards, not foreigners, as can be seen by the hundreds of thousands of tower blocks and urbanisations which sprang up around the edges of all our towns and cities. There is far more to Spain than those pink villas on the CDS!

Re: Is Spain about to disintegrate??
 

he seems to get on well with Angela
or is that a ploy or worse a front for her pulling the strings
:eek:

Re: Is Spain about to disintegrate??
 

Finally, someone who speaks sense!

Makes a change after 4 years of rubbish :)

Re: Is Spain about to disintegrate??
 

How do you think the 70% of spanish survive on the CDS. The trucks that deliver Coca cola, the San Miguel factory. the supermarkets, furniture shops. It feeds off tourism and residential tourism. The small industry it did have, textiles etc. has been closed years ago. If the foreigners left the Spanish would lose their service sector jobs and then they wouldn't be spending either, as I said downward spiral. Unemployment is now 35% in Andalucía and the province has asked for a bailout.

Re: Is Spain about to disintegrate??
 

Isn't the fact that higher unemployment levels in Andalucia and the tourist states (Valencia, Murcia, Canaries) a sign that in fact tourism has been bad for the economy? Ok, so Extremadura looks bad too.
Very few people used to visit the Basque country, yet it has the lowest unemployment rates in Spain!

http://img.elblogsalmon.com/2012/07/...2012-datos.jpg

Re: Is Spain about to disintegrate??
 

It's not bad for the economy at all,in fact the contrary,as long as there is a balanced economy.
Sadly that's not been the case and Spain became to reliant on the gravy train of easy money thinking the good times would never end and making no preparation for some rainy days which were always going to happen some time, regardless of the present serious crisis.

Re: Is Spain about to disintegrate??
 

No, was in the 15thC

The Catholic Kings were the parents of Catherine of Aragon (Catalina de Aragon), first wife of Henry VIII

Re: Is Spain about to disintegrate??
 

The Basque country has a manufacturing base Andalucía has nothing to speak of. Some low paid agricultural jobs that's all. The Andalusians are always complaining about the regions reliance on tourism, boom and bust!

Re: Is Spain about to disintegrate??
 

Firstly, there are many more Spansh tourists than any other nationality

Secondly, the "Costas" have been living off lowest denominator tourism for too long. Tourism is actually at record levels in Andalucia yet unemployment is at 35%, like steviedeluxe mentioned.

That tells me that it doesnt work

Something else to bear in mind is that there was an influx of both foreigners and Spaniards to the Costas over the past 20 years or so - for different reasons of course. Out of the 90 people or so in my tennis league, 87 were Spanish, but only a handful were actually from that area. The rest had come with their families to look for work from places like Cadiz, Jerez and Extremadura

Mass market tourism is a lazy economic model that promotes displacement of people and ends up with large amounts of unemployed concentrated in the same areas when times are bad.

It would be better to bring the services and industry to the places that need it - which (as nobody has ever mentioned on here) was the point of all the AVE lines and new airports. They wanted to make all regions of Spain accessible to business - a commendable but naive idea because of course you need the infrastructure, but also the incentive

Re: Is Spain about to disintegrate??
 

One of the reasons that tourism isnt the answer to all prayers is that the major centres like Malaga and Marbella play host and then send them out on day trips, returning for the usual late Spanish evening meal.

We have dozens of non-local coaches cluttering up the car park for the Alhambra every day. But as one Yank I met last summer summed it up at 11.30 one morning "Gee just done the Alhambra, get an our to myself and then off to Cordoba for the afternoon"

Granada council aren't happy about this because as we know here, the city has more to offer than a couple of hours at the Alhambra. I am sure Cordoba council feel the same way. As will Seville and Cadiz on a similar one day trip.
The local hotels don't get business, the bars and cafes similar, the shops don't see much from it either.

I will say that Granada has the infrastructure, the airport is flourishing after a down period, the AVE will get finished one day, the major road networks are now complete, bypassing many towns that only got pollution and can now start to rebuild themselves.

CM, If I may I would like to ask you for your thoughts on how to improve matters for those areas like Andalucia which historically has been an agri-fish region. We have the roads, the rail, the air, we have the industrial centres and land to build more.

Re: Is Spain about to disintegrate??
 

I have said before that there are around 70% Spaniards on the coast. Many are from outside Andalucía. Most came in the boom years, not just builders, lawyers etc. Doesn't alter the fact that almost all depend, either directly or indirectly on tourism and residential tourism for a living.

Tourism is only at record levels if you take the skewed stats of the tourist sector of the junta. Spanish tourism was well down this year on the CDS. Golf courses are having financial difficulties and hotel occupation at around 72% is hardly vibrant. Some hotels have closed down, those 40 staff who have lost their jobs in just one hotel means cerca 45,000€ into the local economy which in turn starts to suffer...geddit!

Re: Is Spain about to disintegrate??
 

well the L'REBUBLIC DE CATALUNYA will join france and germany as a modern manufacturing state

leaving the REINO DE ESPAÑA as a great place for tourists and growing fruit and veg early in the year ....

you can drive from DE to CAT in a day....or take the ave

ps BARCA is the best city i have ever been to

Re: Is Spain about to disintegrate??
 

Yes it isnt rocket science. My point is that mass market tourism down there was a flawed business model for the start

Take the golf courses, they werent built for the golf, they were built so the land around it could be reclassifed for them to build all the housing. That is where they made their money. The golf courses never had a viable business plan. And given the sheer number of them, it is impossible for them all to be profitable

Andalucia needs to concentrate on what it does well and aspire for more i.e. they need to market their high quality products more, such as olive oil, jamon de bellota etc - and continue to promote their historic tourism. There are also burgening centres of science and industry

The young people in Spain are very well qualified, what is lacking are jobs that need qualified people. Talk to the pharamceutical companies for example. They can get qualified people in Andalucia for half the price of a qualified German