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shocking statistics

shocking statistics

Old Dec 30th 2019, 2:51 pm
  #1  
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Angry shocking statistics

"Young people in Spain need to spend 94% of salary to rent own place"

“I would love to move out, but it is an expense I cannot afford,” says Patricia Barcala, a 24-year-old who earns €1,000 a month as a digital consultant in Madrid. She has been considering renting an apartment with her boyfriend “but it is crazy,” she says. “Those that are minimally decent do not go for less than €1,200 [a month].”


from the article:
https://elpais.com/elpais/2019/12/18...83_164627.html

Geez, digital consultants make only E1000? So how does a supermarket worker make?

Are short term rentals to tourists to blame for long term rental prices going through the roof thus ruining Patricia Barcala's life? Assuming her boyfriend has a job and also makes E1000 a month they'll never be able to afford children or a car if rent for a decent place is E1200.
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Old Dec 30th 2019, 3:46 pm
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Default Re: shocking statistics

Originally Posted by m2m2012 View Post
"Young people in Spain need to spend 94% of salary to rent own place"

“I would love to move out, but it is an expense I cannot afford,” says Patricia Barcala, a 24-year-old who earns €1,000 a month as a digital consultant in Madrid. She has been considering renting an apartment with her boyfriend “but it is crazy,” she says. “Those that are minimally decent do not go for less than €1,200 [a month].”


from the article:
https://elpais.com/elpais/2019/12/18...83_164627.html

Geez, digital consultants make only E1000? So how does a supermarket worker make?

Are short term rentals to tourists to blame for long term rental prices going through the roof thus ruining Patricia Barcala's life? Assuming her boyfriend has a job and also makes E1000 a month they'll never be able to afford children or a car if rent for a decent place is E1200.
Madrid is no different to London, Paris, Berlin or any other major European city. Venture outside of the Capital or large cities such as Barca, Seville etc and rents are more favourable where for 450-550€ per month you can get a decent 2 bed apt.
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Old Dec 30th 2019, 5:01 pm
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Default Re: shocking statistics

One of the first things I learnt about young Spanish people ( approx. 15 yrs ago) was they were still at home into their late 20's and older. The Spanish teacher was 27 and could not afford to move and said most could not. A lot of owners do not do 12 month rentals. They can earn more from short term rentals especially through Easter to October. At least that was I found when looking longer term rentals.

Several years ago I was talking to a Portuguese lady who along with her husband took home just over 800 euros for 2 full time jobs. Her rent was 400 + for what she called a hovel. They could not afford to have children and both were looking second jobs :-( I think it was in Lithuania that the top government official earned 800 a month ! He was apologising for the lack of an official car, they only one and mayor was out in it. He was using his own old Lada. Cleaned and polished to a mirror effect.
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Old Dec 30th 2019, 5:01 pm
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Default Re: shocking statistics

Originally Posted by m2m2012 View Post
"Young people in Spain need to spend 94% of salary to rent own place"

“I would love to move out, but it is an expense I cannot afford,” says Patricia Barcala, a 24-year-old who earns €1,000 a month as a digital consultant in Madrid. She has been considering renting an apartment with her boyfriend “but it is crazy,” she says. “Those that are minimally decent do not go for less than €1,200 [a month].”


from the article:
https://elpais.com/elpais/2019/12/18...83_164627.html

Geez, digital consultants make only E1000? So how does a supermarket worker make?

Are short term rentals to tourists to blame for long term rental prices going through the roof thus ruining Patricia Barcala's life? Assuming her boyfriend has a job and also makes E1000 a month they'll never be able to afford children or a car if rent for a decent place is E1200.

Its not that shocking, its the same almost everywhere.

Tourists are not to blame. Its mainly landlords who keep putting up rent, knowing full well that people HAVE to pay these amounts.
We have the same problem in Shoreham by sea, West Sussex.

My son will be looking for a place soon and for a bedsit around here its about £650 a month. He earns £800. And you have to add council tax to that as well.

Usually if the rents are cheap its because there is no work in the area.
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Old Dec 30th 2019, 5:28 pm
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Default Re: shocking statistics

As others said rental situation is not much better in other capital cities. At Mercadona online I found the following offer for shop assistant 40 hour week: Salary:
€ 1,328 gross / month with wage progression
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Old Dec 30th 2019, 5:43 pm
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Default Re: shocking statistics

I've spoken to quite a few bartenders, waiting staff etc. in Valencia and they seem to do okay on their wages, they have their own places or live in flat-shares, which is no different to home in South-East. I had a flat-share for €350 a month whilst I narrowed down where I wanted to live; I now have a lovely two-bedroom apartment in a great location for €900. I could rent out my spare room, but I don't need to.
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Old Jan 5th 2020, 6:40 pm
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Default Re: shocking statistics

the rents in the cities are alot higher, but the average wage is only €1000 a month. The boom is gone, the rents are rising.

We were looking to move recently, and what we are in at the moment is around half the price of the equivalent house within 30 minutes of the airport.

The land lady said she wants to put the rent up next year (after we have been here 4 years) and we told her that we would be moving out. To be honest.. depending on how much she puts it up.. it will probably still be the cheapest place we can find !
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Old Jan 5th 2020, 7:50 pm
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Default Re: shocking statistics

When I first moved to Spain, to be a 'mileurista' (to earn 1000€ per month) was something to be pitied. Now for many it's something to aspire to. The boom in tourism and airbnb is reducing the supply of long term lets and causing rents to rise out of the reach of ordinary working spaniards who are being forced to move futher and further from their home cities in order to find affordable accommodation.

The we have politicians lamenting the low birth rate.

The problem will have knock-on effects for decades. Pensions go much further when you've paid off your mortgage than when you're still having to find monthly rent payments.

Last edited by rachelk; Jan 5th 2020 at 7:53 pm.
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Old Jan 6th 2020, 7:55 am
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Default Re: shocking statistics

The long term rental prices have shot up due to what I believe is a combination of factors but at the end of the day it comes down to supply and demand - ie lots want but not enough available.

Demand created by people who don't want the perceived risk of owning want flexibility and no commitment. Some think it is cheaper no maintenance, community costs etc.

Availability has been affected by owners placing their properties onto AirBNB and the like to make more money (mind out income taxed more and other on costs but still...)

Given the incredibly low-interest rates I still would have thought buying is a good long term bet but people have different ideas and priorities.
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Old Jan 6th 2020, 8:16 am
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Default Re: shocking statistics

Originally Posted by spainrico View Post
The long term rental prices have shot up due to what I believe is a combination of factors but at the end of the day it comes down to supply and demand - ie lots want but not enough available.

Demand created by people who don't want the perceived risk of owning want flexibility and no commitment. Some think it is cheaper no maintenance, community costs etc.

Availability has been affected by owners placing their properties onto AirBNB and the like to make more money (mind out income taxed more and other on costs but still...)

Given the incredibly low-interest rates I still would have thought buying is a good long term bet but people have different ideas and priorities.
Yep and every part of the country will have different challenges. If you look at Madrid the difference between sales available and rentals available is huge

Map of Madrid: homes for sale,
See the 27,145 homes

Map of Madrid: homes for rent,

See the 11,156 homes
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Old Jan 6th 2020, 1:08 pm
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Default Re: shocking statistics

There's a lot to factor in. The 24-year-old in Spain earning €1,000 a month I assume is earning the Spanish minimum wage which is €1,050 a month. The equivalent for a 24-year-old in the UK would be £1,334.66 per month (£7.70 per hour) but the cost of living in the UK is much, much higher. Finding a job earning NMW I imagine is a lot easier in the UK than Spain, for sure, but who aspires to be working in a minimum wage job? It kills me that people with no education, no skills, no drive etc. complain that working in retail doesn't pay well enough- perhaps if they'd studied harder or applied themselves more then they wouldn't be in that position, as there are massive, massive amounts of skilled job vacancies in the UK.

I have a two-bed apartment in the UK that I rent out for £1,100.00 a month, the Council Tax comes in at £160.00 a month and Service Charge comes in at £150.00 a month.
I have a two-bed apartment in Valencia that I rent for €900.00 a month, the equivalent to Council Tax comes in at €11.66 a month and there is no Service Charge.

My bills in Spain are also considerably less, as is my cost of living. Taking my two properties as an example...

* two people both on National Minimum Wage renting my place in the UK and paying 50% of the rent and Council Tax each would come to 47.2% of their gross income.
* two people both on Spanish Minimum Wage renting my place in Spain and paying 50% of the rent and Council Tax each would come to 43.4% of their gross income.

Again, apart from my internet, my bills are cheaper in Spain as is my cost of living, especially with things like eating/drinking out and travel.
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Old Jan 6th 2020, 2:06 pm
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Default Re: shocking statistics

Originally Posted by Opinion View Post
There's a lot to factor in. The 24-year-old in Spain earning €1,000 a month I assume is earning the Spanish minimum wage which is €1,050 a month. The equivalent for a 24-year-old in the UK would be £1,334.66 per month (£7.70 per hour) but the cost of living in the UK is much, much higher. Finding a job earning NMW I imagine is a lot easier in the UK than Spain, for sure, but who aspires to be working in a minimum wage job? It kills me that people with no education, no skills, no drive etc. complain that working in retail doesn't pay well enough- perhaps if they'd studied harder or applied themselves more then they wouldn't be in that position, as there are massive, massive amounts of skilled job vacancies in the UK.

I have a two-bed apartment in the UK that I rent out for £1,100.00 a month, the Council Tax comes in at £160.00 a month and Service Charge comes in at £150.00 a month.
I have a two-bed apartment in Valencia that I rent for €900.00 a month, the equivalent to Council Tax comes in at €11.66 a month and there is no Service Charge.

My bills in Spain are also considerably less, as is my cost of living. Taking my two properties as an example...

* two people both on National Minimum Wage renting my place in the UK and paying 50% of the rent and Council Tax each would come to 47.2% of their gross income.
* two people both on Spanish Minimum Wage renting my place in Spain and paying 50% of the rent and Council Tax each would come to 43.4% of their gross income.

Again, apart from my internet, my bills are cheaper in Spain as is my cost of living, especially with things like eating/drinking out and travel.
It's easy to calculate that way, but as you say there's a lot more to factor in. You have to look at real wages vs. cost of living. How many people can't get a job in Spain, how many people earn more than minimum, what about allowances, benefits, tax reliefs? At the end of the day it's the individual situation that counts. If I were to move to Spain today, the salaries on offer would mean I'd be losing over 50% of disposable income.
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Old Jan 6th 2020, 3:10 pm
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Default Re: shocking statistics

Originally Posted by rachelk View Post
When I first moved to Spain, to be a 'mileurista' (to earn 1000€ per month) was something to be pitied. Now for many it's something to aspire to..
oh how things have changed from 20 years ago.





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Old Jan 6th 2020, 8:02 pm
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Default Re: shocking statistics

It is incredibly presumptuous to expect to be able to rent a flat in the centre of a capital city on a first job salary. Anywhere. She can either do what most people do and rent a room somewhere further out, or she can stay at home and work on increasing her salary until she can afford to rent a flat. i.e. work out what skills are in demand, work on gaining those skills and then start applying for better jobs. So many people in Spain place a ceiling on their salaries themselves because they won't work the market. They accept the first job offer they receive and spend the rest of their working lives in the same company, complaining that their salary is too low. Too few people work on improving their job skills, although plenty seem keen on doing meaningless "masters" in esoteric subjects that don't provide people with hard skills, but they get a nice certificate at the end. There are plenty of high paid jobs in Madrid, which companies struggle to fill, and which only require a few years of relevant experience, but too few people seem capable of gaining those skills.
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Old Jan 6th 2020, 8:04 pm
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Default Re: shocking statistics

Originally Posted by chopera View Post
It is incredibly presumptuous to expect to be able to rent a flat in the centre of a capital city on a first job salary. Anywhere. She can either do what most people do and rent a room somewhere further out, or she can stay at home and work on increasing her salary until she can afford to rent a flat. i.e. work out what skills are in demand, work on gaining those skills and then start applying for better jobs. So many people in Spain place a ceiling on their salaries themselves because they won't work the market. They accept the first job offer they receive and spend the rest of their working lives in the same company, complaining that their salary is too low. Too few people work on improving their job skills, although plenty seem keen on doing meaningless "masters" in esoteric subjects that don't provide people with hard skills, but they get a nice certificate at the end. There are plenty of high paid jobs in Madrid, which companies struggle to fill, and which only require a few years of relevant experience, but too few people seem capable of gaining those skills.
This! And it's not just a Spanish thing, it's an issue in the UK, too.
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