Shocking Scenes in Madrid.
 

They didn't wait for match day to kick off in Madrid last night.

Scenes of shocking violence on the Spanish TV News Channels today.

http://www.thelocal.es/20140323/clas...nity-to-madrid

Meant to be a march for dignity and somewhat ironically almost coinciding with the death of the guy who helped return Spain to Democracy, especially in view of the fact that so many Spaniards see the present govt as moving back towards Francoism.

Unacceptable, but to a certain extent understandable in view of the lack of serious progress to end the crisis and give desperate people some hope for the future.

"But spending cuts of €150 billion have done nothing to dent Spain's record levels of unemployment and prolonged recession, and triggered two general strikes in 2012 that brought millions to the streets.

Many are angry at paying the price for what they see as the corrupt collusion of Spanish lawmakers and regional banks that helped trigger the crisis."

"Let them give us the money stolen by politicians and bankers," said protester Trini Reina, 48, from Seville. "I haven't paid my mortgage for seven months. The system is bankrupt and we are paying dearly for it."

Re: Shocking Scenes in Madrid.
 

Dick we were only there for six months last year and after let us say a long time in France. You could indeed be seduced by the weather the life style et al in Spain.

We are on the point of coming back (if they will accept us) but in our minds there are continuing difficulties. But in fairness that is said of France (Hollande) and let us see the results of the elections today and indeed the UK.

So I suppose suck it and see?

As an aside we own property in the UK and the tenants paid a bond which is held separately in an account and no one can get their hands on it until the agreement as to the condition of the house. In Spain (and here only our experience) you just write off two months bond for your are never likely to get it back and compensate by not paying the last two months rent. We wrote off two months rent - it is history.

However everywhere has its problems?

But sat at a restaurant comme Piri Piri in the Port area of Javea in the summer months does take some beating.

Re: Shocking Scenes in Madrid.
 

They do indeed, but some are a lot more serious than others. The EU unemployment rate is around 10% (?), Germany, UK etc much lower than that, but Spain remains stubbornly around 26% with no signs of dropping. That makes Spain's rate nearly four times that of UK, (although some would have us believe that the UK fiddles the figures whilst Spain doesn't! :rofl:) so it's no wonder the Spanish are feeling militant, and no wonder why the numbers leaving Spain to find work went up again last year.

Re: Shocking Scenes in Madrid.
 

It surely does, but try telling that to the 26% Spanish out of a job, or the many now being used for what is virtually slave labour, or those thrown out of the homes onto the streets if they haven't already committed suicide that is, or the many thousands who have been virtually forced to leave their home country to try and earn a crust, or those I see on an almost daily basis scavenging in rubbish bins for food.

It was supposed to be a protest march for dignity and very sad it turned into something really nasty, but as I said understandable to an extent with a cold hearted b........ like Rajoy running the show, though to be fair he is little more than Merkels puppet these days.

Re: Shocking Scenes in Madrid.
 

I've watched most Spanish demonstrations on TV although I did see some minor ones live in the Alicante province. What has amazed me in the past has been the reluctance of demonstrators to confront one of the main problems causing recent Spanish economic woes, corruption at mind-blowing levels. The placards at this demonstration finally seemed to address the problem, but it's taken long enough.

Until very recently, corruption at every level in Spanish society seemed to have been accepted as a way of life. Mayors have been convicted of corruption and were voted back in by the population before coming out of prison. To get anything done in business or even to get a bigger garden shed you had to pay someone, I remember one mayor of Marbella saying that she wouldn't even look at any papers until she had been paid.

The governing body at the centre of the EU is again awash with money and power and can reduce the high Mediterranean unemployment at a stroke, but they need to be convinced that EU money is not going into politicians pockets as it has done in the past, nor will it be used to build any more ghost airports and motorways to nowhere.

They won't want to give anything to a bent politician like Rajoy.

Re: Shocking Scenes in Madrid.
 

Poor Aggy. Will the numbers of people leaving ever reach the millions that left the UK to find better opportunities abroad? Good for 1 country, bad for the other, as per your constant baiting?

http://www.theguardian.com/global-de...ills-shortages

Still the fact that exports are doing so well, tourist numbers are up, and employment is now being created in the Spanish economy are all things to applaud now?

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-0...es-repeat.html

Re: Shocking Scenes in Madrid.
 

In fairness I would think a very large majority of expats moving full time to the likes of Spain Cyprus in the past would have been to retire. Spanish are not moving out to retire or even to broaden their work experience, they are doing because they need work to live. There is a vast difference in retired people retiring to the sun and young people so demoralised they have to leave their families and country of birth in order to survive. Yes I am aware in the past some did move to Spain and Cyprus to work but that is mainly through choice not need.

Re: Shocking Scenes in Madrid.
 

Unlike say, Spain, I'd be more inclined to suspect those leaving the UK tend to be prosperous and seek more value from their wealth, which could include a life in the sun, or even tax relief...

Re: Shocking Scenes in Madrid.
 

The article actually states that most moving abroad from the UK are of working age, and the main destinations are Australia, Canada and the US.
So why is the agenda being spread that it's "bad" for Spanish to work abroad, yet fine for the Brits to seek better opportunities abroad (and in far greater numbers)?

Re: Shocking Scenes in Madrid.
 

Of course, but you can't expect the Minister for Propoganda to point out the obvious:lol:

Re: Shocking Scenes in Madrid.
 

Looking around the battered old UK cars on the CDS, I would say the oppposite was true

British people want to find somewhere sunny and cheap to live where they think they dont have to work much

Re: Shocking Scenes in Madrid.
 

I saw a lot of banners against corruption. I think it will take at least another generation to improve. Most of the people charged with corruption have got off. Just last week the couple who owned AIFOS the large developers were aquitted of fraud after not returning over a million euros of deposits. The Judge said there was no intention to defraud even though they took deposits for places they didn't have planning permission!

http://www.diariosur.es/v/20140319/m...-20140319.html

Re: Shocking Scenes in Madrid.
 

thank goodness for a common law legal system. It is obvious that the Judge does not recognise mens rea. Please forgive me but is there trial by Jury in Spain or do the Judges themselves 'Do the business?'

With so many alleged allegations flying around are there any houses or apartments changing hands or is there a sense of fear as to whether property is legal or not? then the argument is go to see a good Abogado.

How does one know if he is 'straight'

Due to the recession we are witnessing more Solicitors in the UK falling foul of the system and then being 'struck' off. However the Solicitors RA are there to handle compensation.

Is there such a body in Spain?

Re: Shocking Scenes in Madrid.
 

There are the Colegios de Abogados but ineffective. They are mainly professional associations set up to protect their members.

Re: Shocking Scenes in Madrid.
 

And therefore no members of the public? Although it is argued in the UK that the Bar Council looks after its own.

Beware I suppose is the theme whilst buying a property in Spain?

Re: Shocking Scenes in Madrid.
 

Agreed. And as I said, people from economically challenged populations move for entirely different reasons than those who have the means and luxury to move wherever suits them.

Re: Shocking Scenes in Madrid.
 

...and therefore they choose to work less, but to live in near-poverty

Meaning that immigration is a good thing. We can all choose the lifestyle that suits us best

Re: Shocking Scenes in Madrid.
 

You mean hand to mouth brigade...no job too small, airport runs, walls painting etc:rofl:

Re: Shocking Scenes in Madrid.
 

I obviously can't speak for you, but neither I nor anyone we know from the UK or northern Europe fits that description. They didn't come here seeking prosperity. They brought it with them.

Re: Shocking Scenes in Madrid.
 

From the accounts I'm hearing it didn't turn into anything particularly nasty at all, a few scuffles to grab the headlines and give further fuel to a government looking for any excuse to ban these types of protest.

Maybe it's better to focus on the majority who protested peacefully rather than the minority who didn't?

Re: Shocking Scenes in Madrid.
 

So all these prosperous Brits are choosing to drive around in old bangers on UK number plates are they? They are actually rich but pretending to be poor

Pull the other one

Re: Shocking Scenes in Madrid.
 

Did not look bad no, :unsure: at least 101 injured, 67 of them Coppers and 29 was so far arrested, I think the death of Adolfo Suarez has probably took the shine off the riots being a much bigger story today.

Re: Shocking Scenes in Madrid.
 

Those type of stats are similar to grudge football matches no? Celtic v Rangers, West Ham v Chelsea or even Derby v Leicester.... Not saying it should be allowed to happen, but easily avoided by anyone who doesn't look for trouble. And as I say I'm in central Madrid most days, mainly in the shopping side, and never stray into the places these demos may kick off. I'd be more scared going to Belfast (or even Glasgow) in marching season.

Re: Shocking Scenes in Madrid.
 

Just as an aside I watched the Clasico in two venues last night - changed at half time. In both places there were supporters of Barca, cheering their goals, with no threat of trouble or violence. I've noticed this in London too, people who support different teams can somehow tolerate opposition supporters. But I know smaller cities where this wouldn't be the case.

Re: Shocking Scenes in Madrid.
 

There was a good atmosphere in the bar I was in, mostly Barca fans :( I was going to another bar at HT but it was too good a atmosphere to walk out.

Yep happens all the time, some will overspill into Violence though, It would not happen as nicely in Italy for sure, I had a really bad frightening experience in Roma once, I really thought it was gonna be game over

Betis / Sevilla as well I have been there and seen cars torched and violence outside, Ive seen bad west ham matches in pubs, I remember once coming out of West Ham and a minibus with Salford Van Hire was plodding up the road, they smashed every window, they had a long drive back in the cold night.

Last match I went to was Arsenal v Liverpool and they would not let me in the bar, so I went over the road and bought a pin on Arsenal Badge and then was let in, but Arsenal is not really a fighting club Spurs on the other hand are pretty much hated through Europe.

Re: Shocking Scenes in Madrid.
 

Well what is "rich" exactly? Being able to buy food and pay rent? As even you suggested recently, apparently it's anyone with more than €25k pa income.

"rich" is only relative anyway. But i have to believe that anyone who has the means to pull sticks simply because they fancy it would have to be better off than those who up sticks because they have no other choice... ...or otherwise "rich" to use your own term.

Re: Shocking Scenes in Madrid.
 

I didn't say it was I referred if you read my post those expats moving to the likes of Spain and Cyprus. There is nothing wrong with Spanish or any other EU citizen trying yo better their life.

Re: Shocking Scenes in Madrid.
 

Or retire to hoping to make their pension go a bit farther, mind not sure that is still the case unless you are an alcoholic smoker!

Re: Shocking Scenes in Madrid.
 

People always say that "rich" means someone who has twice as much as them, so in my case, it is someone with a lot more than 25k ;)

In my experience, especially the younger Brits and British families on the CDS, they are no "richer" than the local population. Apart from a few exceptions, Spain does not attract rich immigrants, whether they be Brits or any other nationality

Why do you think the British places on the Coast offer pints for 1 euro and all day breakfasts for 2 euros?

Re: Shocking Scenes in Madrid.
 

In my experience, especially the younger Brits and British families on the CDS, they are no "richer" than the local population. Apart from a few exceptions, Spain does not attract rich immigrants, whether they be Brits or any other nationality

Why do you think the British places on the Coast offer pints for 1 euro and all day breakfasts for 2 euros?[/QUOTE]

Lets face it many UK expats are in any Euro Zone Country worse off than they were pre 2008 due to the deflation of the £ and that isn't down to Spain. So yes coastal areas with a large UK expat population have to keep prices low. mind same thing happens in most of the UK hence popularity of Weatherspoons. To do otherwise is probably finnancial scuicide for struggling bars.

Re: Shocking Scenes in Madrid.
 

Those cheap pints and breakfasts aren't aimed at immigrants, just the down market tourists of which Spain gets many.

Re: Shocking Scenes in Madrid.
 

What a typically nonsensical statement C'man.
Your spelling isn't too hot either. :lol:

So you've seen some battered old UK cars on the CDS alongside numerous battered old Spanish cars, no doubt.

Now before you posted such absolute garbage on which to base your totally unfounded judgement, did you ever stop to think precisely how many UK expats are driving around in modern up to date Spanish registered cars ??????????

Certainly the vast majority of those I know at least.

Regarding those in battered cars do you ever stop to think there may well be a perfectly sensible reason to use a battered old car in such God forsaken areas as that ?
One of the best pieces of advice I was given when I first briefly lived in such an area.

Think about it, I'm sure the penny/cent will drop eventually.

You obviously haven't even the faintest clue.

A very cheap shot even by your own pathetic standards.

Re: Shocking Scenes in Madrid.
 

Some very angry people out there now.:frown:

The TV clips were not pleasant viewing at all and they were behaving like people with virtually nothing left to lose.

They've been told things are changing and improving for the past two years, unfortunately most stats indicate otherwise and the best hope for many of them now is a one way ticket heading towards N.Europe.

The Spanish are overall a very proud nation, which makes it all the sadder to see so many of them having their dignity completely taken away and be reduced to acts of such desperation, not only as shown on TV, but in daily occurrences such as those I see on a regular basis, scavenging in the rubbish bins for food or anything of value, to give just one example.

Re: Shocking Scenes in Madrid.
 

I change my cars every 2 years in UK, and every one I have traded in has been in immaculate condition, but given the pathetic driving standards in Spain if I ever moved there, I'd be driving an old banger as well.;)

Re: Shocking Scenes in Madrid.
 

Quite !

http://elpais.com/elpais/2014/03/24/...03_411585.html

Bad organisation all round apparently.

The Spanish cops are usually well equiped, even over equiped and big in numbers, but they found themselves under serious pressure from desperate people who must have felt they had little to lose.

Not quite so brave under pressure either.
I saw one cop down on the floor apparently badly injured and still taking a kicking.
His pals came to help, then turned round and fled and left him to it, as soon as they saw a few demonstrators heading in their direction.

Re: Shocking Scenes in Madrid.
 

The problem is that nobody who was there says they saw anything. Apparently it did kick off near the PP HQ after the demonstration was over and most people had already left.

Re: Shocking Scenes in Madrid.
 

Well Stevie definitely didn't see it, so it was probably all a figment of someones wild imagination. :cool:

Re: Shocking Scenes in Madrid.
 

A lot of expats have come to that reluctant conclusion, especially if they come over with sparkling new British cars.

I take all the usual precautions with my current car, no longer sparkling, no longer British, but not an old banger either. I park away from Spanish old bangers and hire cars, I allow extra spacing when driving round roundabouts etc etc.

And I still get those mysterious scratches in mysterious places, but now I just leave them in place - just like the grafiti on my wall outside. I'm even thinking about stopping polishing my shoes, to blend in with the people I meet every day, which are mostly Spanish people, well, about half and half actually.

Re: Shocking Scenes in Madrid.
 

I've bought 2 new and expensive cars over the past few years and never had a scratch

On the street I lived on in Benalmadena Pueblo there were quite a few British families. They were not well off by any stretch of the imagination. At least that was the impression they gave. Perhaps they have 100,000s squirreled away but never spent any!

Re: Shocking Scenes in Madrid.
 

You're lucky then.

Over here it's a running joke. Expats (especially Germans, who have a sort of religious view of cars) move here with their new Audi's and Mercs... Within a year, they've been sold off in favour of an old Golf or Fiesta. To be fair, old Defenders have become pretty popular, as they are virtually indestructible.

There's also the threat of being accused of being "rich" if you exhibit a new car.