jimbob66

I posted last week about a number of issues one of which was the level of income deemed enough to satisfy self-sufficiency for residencia applications in Spain.Below is part of a reply from Your Europe Advice.

Dear Sir/Madam,

Please find below the reply to your enquiry. Please note that the advice given by Your Europe Advice is an independent advice and cannot be considered to be the opinion of the European Commission, of any other EU institution or its staff nor will this advice be binding upon the European Commission, any other EU or national institution.

Thank you for contacting Your Europe Advice.

Directive 2004/38 governs the rights of EU citizens and their family members to reside in a country other than their country of nationality.

As an EU citizen you have the right to reside up to 3 months in any EU country (other than your country of nationality) without having to fulfill any conditions. To stay beyond the first 3 months, you have the right to live and reside in any EU country provided that you either (1) work (as an employee or self-employed worker), or (2) study, or (3) have sufficient means to support yourself without being an unreasonable burden on the social security system of that country and you have comprehensive healthcare insurance in place.

Since you intend to stay for over three months, you are required to register with the local authorities within three months of your arrival.
You can find out more about the procedures to get a registration certificate in Spain here:
Portal de Inmigración Ministerio de Empleo y Seguridad Social: Certificado de registro de ciudadano de la Unión

The Directive also states that a person will be considered as having sufficient resources if he has an income above the level below which nationals become eligible for social assistance (Article 8(4) applies). In Spain, Royal Decree 240/2007 implements Directive 2004/38 into Spanish law. Article 7.7 contains a provision analogous to Article 8(4) of Directive 2004/38/EC. As far as we know it has not been changed since 2007. In this respect, the Spanish authorities must take into account the personal situation of the person concerned, and the amount of "sufficient resources" which a person should have cannot be higher than the threshold below which Spaniards become eligible for social assistance, or higher than the minimum social security pension. For non-contributory pensions, this corresponds to €367.90 per month (or €5,150.60 per year, since this is paid in 14 payments).

jimbob66

I wanted to add a bit more .... I assume the figures relate to a single person, although I explained that I was married. In any event, I doubt that for a couple it would be double. I recall info elsewhere suggesting that it was around the 8,000 euros mark.

This for me is the first time I've been able to get figures from an official source and I'm amazed at the bar room, all be it, genuine attempts, suggestions that have figures running into tens of thousands!

Fred James

You need to remember that the official figures are usually ignored by the actual people who do the registration, assuming they are even aware of them, which is unlikely. That is why you will hear a huge number of different figures and conditions banded around, usually based on what actually happens, not what the law says it should be.

For example, it is crystal clear in the law, that when you re-register after 5 years to ensure that you get a certificate of permanent right to reside, that the usual conditions cannot be applied to that new request. Notwithstanding that, a couple who tried to do this recently in the main office in Granada were required to provide proof of income and health cover and told, categorically that that was the law.

I know of other spurious requests such as producing legally translated copies of marriage certificates, and at a lower level, the provision of photos which are not required.

snikpoh

Most people on this (and other) forums are actually talking from their own experiences. As such, the usual figure quoted is 600€ per person per month and/or savings in excess of 6000€ per person.


The figure that 'Europe Advice' quote of 429€ per month (for 12 months) is something that I haven't come across before and am a little sceptical of. Especially in the light of what the Spanish extranjeria ask for.

jimbob66

So, let me get this right. Both Citizens advice, Spain and Your Europe quoting the same figures give rise to scepticism because anecdotal evidence says otherwise? What chance do I have when I apply for residence in say Murcia and have about 6 different figures to go on?
Looking at the Italian govt's requirements, they would seem pretty close to what the Spanish govt suggest and I haven't yet heard about different figures being at the whim of a local official who may or may not like the look of you. I'll be hearing next that backhanders are acceptable.

I thought my experiences of bureaucracy in Argentina would never be repeated in western Europe but what I hear on here suggests otherwise!!!

So reading between the lines, it's pot luck on the day. No point in asking if there are appeal rights?

Does the same slack attitude apply to health cover or can I take it that basic cover with Sanitas which suggests is ok for residencia will actually be accepted?

My wife and I were quite looking forward to preparing for a new life in Spain and her being Argentinian, she comes with a far more relaxed attitude than me but even she is freaking out at the constant different figures that are bandied around.

Maur-Ross

Do many expats you know of ever take them to task officially via CA Spain or such like?

snikpoh

You have to understand that CAB Spain is a charity run to try and help us immigrants. They do just as we do and try and understand the laws/rules in Spain. In this instance, they probably got their information from "Your Europe".

At the end of the day, the only 'correct' figure, is the one that you are given when you submit form EX18. Your best bet is to ask if anyone knows the criteria for the extranjeria in the town where you hope to live.


It is NOT an exact science so you won't find a figure written into law. The best you have is peoples actual experiences.

Dondurma

At the end of the day if you don't/can't comply not a lot happens to you. You won't be thrown out and fines are almost unheard of

jimbob66

There is a figure written into law, it's equivalent to the lowest set of social security payments for a given situation. So, in the Ministry of Interior they have set that for a single person of working age to be 367.90 per month.
As for taking things up with CAB, I've just sent a mail asking for clarification of their info.One section says 8732.22 pa and ten another section says, as on here, 600 each per month or 6000 each in savings.
As for just staying and saying nowt, well that doesn't really sound too good if you want to travel outside Spain and come back but hey, I'll bow to the greater experience of those living there.
Thanks for the info.

ned flanders

Sorry to butt in here with another question. I'm hoping to be able to emigrate to lovely sunny Spain and it is frustrating to read different financial requirements on different posts. However what worries me at the moment is another variable - health insurance. "...and you have comprehensive healthcare insurance in place". Does that mean private insurance or does the often referred to S1 Form cover people of pensioner age ? My hopes rise and fall depending on whose posts I read !

mikelincs

The S1 will, at the moment, cover the healthcare part as you can register with the Spanish Health system via that form

ned flanders

Thanks for the speedy reply Mike.

snikpoh

Hi, can you possibly give a link to where you've found this exact figure please.