jimenato

Does anyone know where I can get an idiot's guide to small business accounting in Spain?

I have a good accountant but I would rather know a bit about it myself than just hand everything to her. I guess it's much like UK accounts (with which I am familiar) but there will be differences (e.g. facturas, tax personal allowances etc.) which I should know about.

Veleta

In English or in Spanish?

There is a lot more available to you in Spanish than in English.

HBG

The only major difference I can think of is the Autonomo and it’s usually a lot easier to deal with Spanish tax authorities, but I would go through a local Gestor for the first couple of years at least. Your advisor will be on first name terms with the relevant authorities, from the town hall to Hacienda.

Ask him what accounting records you need to produce and don’t be surprised if he says None.

jimenato

English preferably but Spanish would do.

jimenato

I have an asesora. She is well recommended and is dealing with my autonomo and other bits and pieces as well as the accounts. She has told me what I need to give her each period (three months) - basically till roll as income and facturas as costs.

One problem I've got is getting facturas. It's OK from the major suppliers who give you a factura with each delivery but what about popping to the stationery shop for paper, the chinese shop for glasses or the shop up the road for potatoes? In the UK the till receipt would do but here that isn't enough - it has to be a factura with your name, address and NIE on. Not so easy for ad hoc purchases.

HBG

I’m surprised she’s asking for till rolls, but in any case, these tills have a habit of breaking down just at the busiest periods. Must be due to the heat.

Are you sure your Spanish fellow bar owners all have to produce till rolls? It would come as a severe shock to some Spanish friends of mine.

Veleta

There is a provision made for this when you do your tax return (or at least there was the last time I had to do a quarterly return).

As you know your profit = your income minus your expenses. Each quarter you pay 20% of your profit as tax. You are allowed to increase the figure for your expenses by 5% to allow for 'expenses that are difficult to justify' (eg, bits and bobs of papeleria, coffee and tapas with clients, etc) thereby reducing the amount of tax you have to pay.

Your gestor should already be allowing for this provision in your tax returns.

jimenato

What do they do then - just pull a figure out of the air? I could do that

jimenato

I didn't know that. Thanks, very helpful.

Veleta

The exact term in Spanish is "gastos de dificil justificación" if you want to check your tax returns and see if your gestor has been filling it in. Casilla 129 on my 2006 tax return.....not sure if it still the same casilla as I haven't got my other tax returns to hand.

JLFS

sensationalfrog

i am not recommending this,but the bar where my wife works part time,the owner has not paid a penny in tax,iva,social security etc in almost 10 years,he has no accountant or a bank account,rents bar and apartment of an english guy,pays cash,i tell my wife,if they catch up with him,he will need to run back to the uk quick

HBG

If you don’t provide a figure, or provide one they disagree with, the authorities use the local average to tax you, often based on your overall trading space or number of tables. Have you ever noticed the size of the tables in Spanish bars?

HBG

That used to be the normal practice for small English bars. If you keep your head down and don’t go in for fruit machines, live music or bingo etc, you should have around three years of trading before they come to the door.

Then, if you’re only renting and have no commitments, it’s time to load up the white van and return home. Or move to another autonomous region and start all over again with your wife signing the rental contract.

I’m not recommending it either, for one thing you get a stiff neck looking over your shoulder all the time.

But more importantly, if you’ve paid into the system for a lengthy period of time, you get a pension and all sorts of other benefits. 15 years is the optimal time. It’s more than double what you would get in England.

Veleta

Really? That's interesting. I didn't know that.

I have 16 years of contributions in the UK and the rest I am notching up here in Spain. I will have over 15 years of contributions in Spain by the time I retire. Any idea how much the Spanish state pension is??