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Remain a citizen of the EU

Remain a citizen of the EU

Old Feb 8th 2017, 4:37 pm
  #31  
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Default Re: Remain a citizen of the EU

Originally Posted by chopera View Post
One of the roots. The other one is the UK's belief they can control immigration though border-controls alone, instead of introducing id cards and strict residency controls for EU citizens as well as non-EU citizens (which is perfectly within the EU rules of course).
During the run up to the referendum the only uk politician I heard mention that point was Alan Johnson briefly.
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Old Feb 9th 2017, 10:30 am
  #32  
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Default Re: Remain a citizen of the EU

Originally Posted by Boseley View Post
That is what we did, we applied for nationality almost four years ago and the same was granted last year.

Makes life easier and insures our future here where we reside.
Did you have to renounce to the British nationality in order to apply? Thank you!
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Old Feb 9th 2017, 11:35 am
  #33  
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Default Re: Remain a citizen of the EU

Originally Posted by Celcal View Post
Did you have to renounce to the British nationality in order to apply? Thank you!
We signed papers to that effect, however one can only renounce United Kingdom nationality at the Home office in London or at a consul elsewhere, therefor in the eyes of the Spanish government we are Spanish and nothing else, but in the eyes of the United Kingdom government we have dual nationality, United Kingdom and Spanish, not that this make a deal of difference to us.

The entire process took 10 years residencia, then a further three years from application to being granted. Application has now changed, new applicants have to pass an exam in both Spanish general knowledge and language, I have also been informed that there is a fee of €100.
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Old Feb 9th 2017, 12:32 pm
  #34  
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Default Re: Remain a citizen of the EU

Originally Posted by Boseley View Post
We signed papers to that effect, however one can only renounce United Kingdom nationality at the Home office in London or at a consul elsewhere, therefor in the eyes of the Spanish government we are Spanish and nothing else, but in the eyes of the United Kingdom government we have dual nationality, United Kingdom and Spanish, not that this make a deal of difference to us.

The entire process took 10 years residencia, then a further three years from application to being granted. Application has now changed, new applicants have to pass an exam in both Spanish general knowledge and language, I have also been informed that there is a fee of €100.
In effect, your Spanish passport can be cancelled at any time due to your false declaration, lol. The Spanish always have a "get out" clause.
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Old Feb 9th 2017, 12:43 pm
  #35  
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Default Re: Remain a citizen of the EU

Originally Posted by avocados View Post
In effect, your Spanish passport can be cancelled at any time due to your false declaration, lol. The Spanish always have a "get out" clause.
I relate only the facts, I am not inclined to comment on opinions and speculations of others.
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Old Feb 9th 2017, 1:13 pm
  #36  
 
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Default Re: Remain a citizen of the EU

Originally Posted by avocados View Post
In effect, your Spanish passport can be cancelled at any time due to your false declaration, lol. The Spanish always have a "get out" clause.
It's not a false declaration, it's just not legally binding under British law. Some countries who forbid dual nationality do require you to produce evidence from your home country that you have legally renounced your existing citizenship before permitting you to acquire theirs. That the Spanish do not is an oversight on their part. The only legal requirement in the Civil Code is that after your application is approved that you swear or promise fidelity to the King and obedience to the Constitution and the law and that you declare that you renounce your previous nationality. The US citizenship ceremony has a similar vow. It's meaningless under British nationality law.
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Old Feb 9th 2017, 1:54 pm
  #37  
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Default Re: Remain a citizen of the EU

Originally Posted by bobd22 View Post
Of course another problem that the UK government of any party doesn't want to address if we did have a contributory system like many EU countries, what happens to our own home grown people that make a living from benefits having never worked or paid into the system?
You are correct.
In terms of its welfare system, the UK is out on a limb.
The non contributory model is plainly wrong because it often rewards the work-shy instead of being a safety net. Alas, no political party has the guts to address it.
A flawed system that has helped Brexit happen - In terms of perception at least, the UK is a soft touch.
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Old Feb 9th 2017, 2:21 pm
  #38  
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Default Re: Remain a citizen of the EU

Originally Posted by chopera View Post
One of the roots. The other one is the UK's belief they can control immigration though border-controls alone, instead of introducing id cards and strict residency controls for EU citizens as well as non-EU citizens (which is perfectly within the EU rules of course).
The UK DID INTRODUCE ID cards indeed I am about one of only some 15000 Brits who managed to get one. The system is still there ready to go. It was completely voluntary and I did use it to cross internal EU borders worked a treat easy to use since most other EU STATES have them and most EU citizens don't bother with passports. They fit in your wallet and are much less hassle to than a passport.

All non EU MIGRANTS TO THE UK must get an ID card from one of about 6 or 7 ID production facilities across UK. You have to have your finger prints taken and an iris scan which are embedded on a chip on the card. This was introduced at the end of the Tony Blair governments.

Guess who took away the option for UK citizens yes you guessed T May within weeks of becoming Home Secretary it was binned. If the option had been kept open to Brits then it could have been mandated to all migrants from all countries. She actually has done nothing to reduce immigration nor make the country more secure from those that do come.
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Old Feb 9th 2017, 2:56 pm
  #39  
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Default Re: Remain a citizen of the EU

Originally Posted by EsuriJohn View Post
The UK DID INTRODUCE ID cards indeed I am about one of only some 15000 Brits who managed to get one. The system is still there ready to go. It was completely voluntary and I did use it to cross internal EU borders worked a treat easy to use since most other EU STATES have them and most EU citizens don't bother with passports. They fit in your wallet and are much less hassle to than a passport.

All non EU MIGRANTS TO THE UK must get an ID card from one of about 6 or 7 ID production facilities across UK. You have to have your finger prints taken and an iris scan which are embedded on a chip on the card. This was introduced at the end of the Tony Blair governments.

Guess who took away the option for UK citizens yes you guessed T May within weeks of becoming Home Secretary it was binned. If the option had been kept open to Brits then it could have been mandated to all migrants from all countries. She actually has done nothing to reduce immigration nor make the country more secure from those that do come.
It's no good if you don't actually need the ID card to function in the UK. The point I was getting at is that if the UK made ID cards/numbers the only form of ID acceptable for doing anything from opening a bank account to paying tax to claiming benefits, then people would be obliged to have one in order to function. If the government made being a resident a requirement of having an ID card then it would force people to take out residency in the UK. At the moment all you need to do is get over the border and you can function normally without even taking out UK residency. People from all over the EU have been doing it for years. And the government may say they are obligatory for non-EU immigrants but they're not really if nobody ever asks to see one.

I'm pretty sure that post-Brexit the UK will find that a lot of the problems with net immigration and benefits abuse haven't gone away, and the UK will close the stable door by introducing ID cards anyway.
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Old Feb 9th 2017, 4:08 pm
  #40  
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Default Re: Remain a citizen of the EU

Perhaps all the problems are basically because the UK never had the (mis) fortune to be invaded by Napoleon who introduced massive bureaucracy and registration of citizens throughout his conquests.
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Old Feb 10th 2017, 12:34 pm
  #41  
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Default Re: Remain a citizen of the EU

Originally Posted by Boseley View Post
We signed papers to that effect, however one can only renounce United Kingdom nationality at the Home office in London or at a consul elsewhere, therefor in the eyes of the Spanish government we are Spanish and nothing else, but in the eyes of the United Kingdom government we have dual nationality, United Kingdom and Spanish, not that this make a deal of difference to us.

The entire process took 10 years residencia, then a further three years from application to being granted. Application has now changed, new applicants have to pass an exam in both Spanish general knowledge and language, I have also been informed that there is a fee of €100.
Thank you Boseley, very helpful. I am married to a Spanish national, so I think it will be quicker in this case. But your reply was very helpful to me. Thank you!
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Old Feb 10th 2017, 12:49 pm
  #42  
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Default Re: Remain a citizen of the EU

There are significant disadvantages of having Spanish citizenship rather than British citizenship, particularly in the case of The Law of Succesion. Under English law, which would normally apply in Spain, you are free to leave your assets in your will to anyone you like.

Under Spanish law your choice is very limited. You are obliged to leave two thirds of your assets to your children and your surviving spouse is entitled to nothing at all. However, you are free to dispose of the remaining third to anyone you wish, which could, of course, include your spouse.

For a couple who own joint property, this could be a major issue.
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