Re: Pronunciation!
 

The problem is that most English speakers are used to using the J in a strong way as in Just, Jon and this is far too harsh. You'll hear nonsense in Ayamonte about how you should replicate the accent to the extent that someone will try and tell you is Ah-zsha-monte. When English people try to do it it sounds ridiculous and is more often than not unrecognizable.
Another problem is B and V. The sound in Spanish is called a Biabial Fricative where the lips do not quite meet but this does not exist in the English Phonetic System.

As a school, my missus never tries to teach something that would be out of their range - it is assumed that over time it will come, but if you learn badly from the start, it is difficult to put right.

Therefore we teach the ll as y because j would be too harsh and even an English perosn doing the dy sound would tend to overpronounce the d.
Ayamonte is Ayamonte - treat it like that until you are frequently talking fluent Spanish every day over a long time and let the accent capture you not you capture the accent.
Treat all words with a B and a V as you would in English. Would you really say Varcelona??? or Balencia??? It may sound like they are saying those things but because of our phonetic system we would find it hard to replicate.

Re: Pronunciation!
 

[Now, for the rolling "rrr's", brisca, try this looking into a mirrror:
"RRRuffles have rrridges." Place the sides of your tongue along the inner edges of your top teeth. Smile into the mirror as you do this! The tip of your tongue now should be pointed, and gently touch, your palate or just behind your front teeth. Say "Ruffles", using your diaphragm (the muscle above your stomach) to push the air up. The mirror is a good tool to see how much you do spit at people! Good luck!]


Many thanks for that suggestion, Carol & John (described so well, too :thumbup:)

Believe me, I've tried..............but I can't emit a sound that even resembles a single "R", let alone a rolling one :ohmy: :o
I'll keep trying, because it's REALLY bugging me that I can't do this :curse:

Re: Pronunciation!
 

Crumbs!
There must be a lot of idiots in my village then................everyone here speaks like that!! :ohmy:

Re: Pronunciation!
 

:rofl: :rofl:

I reckon that's the most useful thing I can do jdr..................especially now my "Rs" has got so much bigger, thanks to bread, churros and all these dulces!! :o

Re: Pronunciation!
 

Sorry??
I'm obviously being rather dense here! :unsure:
I understand what you're saying about the tongue.................but where does the L bit come in??

Thanks for trying to help, anyway :)

Re: Pronunciation!
 

:rofl:x 10

Brisca, are you sure you are opening your mouth when doing these "rrs?:D
Someone posted a while back saying that you need to open your mouth alot more when pronouncing words in spanish. It makes sense, doesn't it?;)

YYZlover, yes, I'd agree that if you don't use it (re: spanish), you'll lose it. It's amazing how most children have the ear to pick up, assimilate, and mimick sounds and word patterns. Especially if they are living in a multi-lingual society.

Alannah, [quote]Lets throw a spanner into the works... [quote] this might cause some confusion for people learning Castellano. Re: accents. Accents are good, IMO.

The aim of the game is communication.
Regards,
Carol

Re: Pronunciation!
 

From a pedagogical standpoint, accents are very much not good. Learn the language as pure as possible - the equivalent of Recieved Prononication/BBC English - which in Spain would be the Valladolid/Castilla Leon region then start to assimilate the accent.

Spanish people for example attempting to learn English, would they be better off from day one trying to learn broad-Jimmy-Nail-esque Geordie English or from a thick Glaswegian accent??

However should they learn English first then spend some time in Newcastle or Glasgow it would be only natural that these accents would creep into their already learnt English.

As I said in an earlier post let the accent capture you not you capture the accent

Re: Pronunciation!
 

Hola Fortaleza!
Not sure. What is BBC English nowadays?
Carol

Re: Pronunciation!
 

Yes, well - BBC moved over to regional accents years ago but in teaching it BBC English refers to the type of newsreader accent that we would have heard up until about the end of the '80s - think Dimbleby, Moira Stewart, John Humphries, Peter Sissons, any Radio 4 save The Archers.....etc


Teaching regional variations before they know the language is a bit like learning to run before you can walk. For example in many parts of Andalucia Tostada is pronounced completely leaving out the the s and the d and the final a - eg To' tá. Now when an English person in the learning process picks that up, firstly in my experience they tend to over pronounce it when it is precisely the opposite, and Secondly, more importantly, when they go to other parts of Spain and say To'tá they will be met with blank expressions.

Here's one for you - This one word is used for a common three word expression heard in many restaurants. Can you guess what it is?
Papadó

Re: Pronunciation!
 

hhhmm, I like these puzzles!
Hopefully, it's nothing to do with breastfeeding?:p
My guess: pan para dos?
Carol

Re: Pronunciation!
 

I agree with both Carol & John AND Fortaleza,

Accents are good! Wouldn't it be boring if we all spoke in excatly the same way!?

However, in terms of learning Spanish (or any other language) I agree that it's far more helpful to learn the "purest" form possible.
In fact, I remember reading that Keith Walters' wife (in her academy) prefers teachers who are from the home counties, in terms of accent and ease of understanding.

When I was very young (and being a home counties girl ;)) sometimes I couldn't understand my own father............because at that time he had a very strong Liverpudlian accent!! :ohmy:

A Spanish friend who lived in Nottingham for 5 years, said she had no problems understanding her colleagues - unless they were from Newcastle or Glasgow!
(And she was told that some of her British colleagues couldn't always understand them either :blink:)

I learnt some basic Spanish before moving here, and my teacher was from Madrid.
When we moved here to Extremadura, it was like I was hearing a completely different language!!
I am now reasonably well tuned in to Extremenos, but I try to use the "proper" Spanish that I originally learned - even if it's yet another thing that makes me stick out here!
Nevertheless, I do slip into the local dialect fairly often :unsure:

Friends in the village openly say that Extremenos is not a good example of spoken Spanish.

Re: Pronunciation!
 

I know just how you feel, I cant understand it either!!

Re: Pronunciation!
 

All right, all right, calm down, calm down (said in Scouse accent :D)

I knew you wouldn't be able to resist a comment about Scousers!! :p

Re: Pronunciation!
 

Cool eh?


Sadly I found out that part of my family are scousers, my aunt is a genealogist and she has discovered we are part of some bloody family group in Liverpool called the Taylors and the Bonds.

I'm told that they financed the liver birds and a big civic building. They were Temperance or methodists or something.

Re: Pronunciation!
 

[QUOTE=brisca;4964926]
Accents are good! Wouldn't it be boring if we all spoke in excatly the same way!?

Thank you, Sam.
I'm still waiting to be caught by this accent...:rofl:
This reminds of the comedian John Sessions' (spelling?) spoof of Meryl Streep and her "Garden of Awksants"!
Fortaleza, you have kept me waiting for an answer!:)

Hasta luego,
Carol