Pronunciation!
 

I am sure you guys will be able to settle the following for me.

We have for the past few months been having discussions with our neighbours about how to pronounce the ll in Spanish :blink: They are having Spanish lessons here in Spain and are taught to pronounce it with a j. My hubby had Spanish lessons in the Uk and was taught to pronounce it with a y. Please please can someone tell me the correct way to pronounce the ll because its driving us nuts :curse:

Re: Pronunciation!
 

ll = English "y" or German type "J". Like "Ja" for "yes".

Re: Pronunciation!
 

So you mean both can be used?

Re: Pronunciation!
 

No, I mean that "Y" in English sounds the same as "J" in German and a lot of other languages for that matter.

I guess your Spanish teacher doesn´t just teach Brits and he/she has got a bit confused as to how the "J" is pronounced in various different countries.

Tell a Brit to pronounce ll like a Y.
Tell a German to pronounce ll like a J.
You should get the same end resulting sound.

Re: Pronunciation!
 

Also here in Ayamonte I have been told it is the local dialect to use the j, although I cant tell. I am happy now to know it is pronounced with a y and can speak Spanish with more confidence in knowing I am doing it correctly.

Thankyou Mr Walters :D

Re: Pronunciation!
 

Now, just to confuse you cos I´m mean like that, you could also say that the Spanish LL is pronounced a bit like "dy" in English cos the "y" by itself sounds a bit too soft and weak. But a "J" would be much too hard and abrupt sounding.

Enjoy practicing that one! I can envisage you now sat in front of your comp trying to get your mouth around how to pronounce "dy".

llorar = to cry.

Pronunciation:
yorar - a bit too soft sounding.
jorar - too harsh sounding
dyorar - better, if you get it right.

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Oh God, I wish I hadnt started this thread now :blink::eek:

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Just go grab someone from down in the Fadesa office and ask them. You must have known you wouldn´t get a straight answer from me! :D

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The problem is they are local people and when I ask local people they say you can use the j and the y :confused: All I want to know is the proper Spanish way of pronouncing it and not the Ayamonte way :blink:

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Here in Valencia I often hear Yo pronounced jo and words like llaves as javes.

The J sounds like the G in the French word plage.

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Here in Ayamonte they pronounce llaves and jabes :blink:

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:thumbsup:

It's all foreign to me.

I have always used Y as a LL, it sounds ok to me!
Luv Eve
xx

Re: Pronunciation!
 

generally you pronounce it like an english y

although of course there are differences in local accents

I know a lot of south americans who pronounce it 'ch'

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Javea is Havea/Habea

Xabia is Chabia/Chavia

two different languages

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I was always told that the ll was pronounced as ly, with only a little of the l sound there, certainly a lot of the Spanish round here do have some of the l sound in it.

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Poor Sarky. All she wanted was a straight answer and look what happened.

:lol:

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I hope you are not laughing at me Walters :p:p

I am going to carry on as I have been and pronouncing the ll as a y!!

Re: Pronunciation!
 

This is probably one of the most difficult letters to pronounce in Spanish for most, it does sounds as 'Y' as Keith mentions but generally you roll the first 'l', so maybe it would be more accurate to say it sounds like 'ly' but difficult... yes.

llaves, pronounce it as 'lya-vez' and you will be pretty dam close.

Re: Pronunciation!
 

OK folks, while we're on this subject......................

Has anyone got any tips for how to practice rolling your Rs!?!
I don't think my tongue is capable is producing the right sound :ohmy:

My Spanish friends have given me a tongue twister to practice, but that doesn't help because I just don't know how to position my tongue to get the correct sound.
I'm told that not all Spanish people can do this either, but it's really bugging me :frown:

I'm currently having the Spanish equivalent of the "flied lice" problem :unsure:

Thanks to anyone who can enlighten me,
Sam.

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:rofl: ROFL :rofl:

Re: Pronunciation!
 

Can´t you just practice purring like a cat? Should sound about right.

I´ve always had more difficulty with the single "r", in so much as it often sounds like a double when I say it. Eg

caro/carro
pero/perro

Regardless of which word I am saying, it usually sounds like the double r version of the word.

Re: Pronunciation!
 

Well, I've tried the purring idea Keith, but as always the only sound that comes out is something akin to a zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz!! :ohmy:

Don't ask me how I do it!?

Well, if you've got an abundance of "r"s then maybe you could send a few my way :unsure:
You see, as I've got a "perra", I'd really like to be able to talk about her properly!

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Ah, yes, another one of my difficult words:

pera/perra.

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Just be thankful you're not Jonathon Ross, he pronounces ll as a w, r as a w and rr as a w:p

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Ahhh a pera de perros? :p well an on-line translator would get it right. :lol:

Re: Pronunciation!
 

Hola! Buenos dias!:)

I thought Annabella might have joined this thread, as she has mentioned Valladolid in other posts?

A birdie told me that the "purest" (?) spanish is spoken in Valladolid. Similarly, for english, one would have to venture north to Inverness. :unsure:
Well, that's what the birdie says.;)

Anyhow, regarding the "ll", pronouncing it as a "ly" would be my choice. In catalan, double L is written as "ly" or "l.l", and if you want you could always slip into the lingo of "j" or "ch" if the other person is more comfortable with it.

Now, for the rolling "rrr's", brisca, try this looking into a mirrror;):
"RRRuffles have rrridges." Place the sides of your tongue along the inner edges of your top teeth. Smile into the mirror as you do this! The tip of your tongue now should be pointed, and gently touch, your palate or just behind your front teeth. Say "Ruffles", using your diaphragm (the muscle above your stomach) to push the air up. The mirror is a good tool to see how much you do spit at people! Good luck!:D

oh Keith, what's the rule/preference for the "d" at the end of a word? silent, hard, or "th"? Practice makes perfect, and I'm out of practice!

Carol

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:D yes, brisca has a perra. I like to eat peras, but I wouldn't like "estar sin una perra"!;)

Re: Pronunciation!
 

why is everyone getting their knickers in such a twist:blink:

spain is a very big country.....with many different accents & regional variations - not to mention the local languages which are so much more than just dialects

in english, which is 'correct'......... bath with a short 'a' or with a longer one so that it sounds more like barth?

there are so many different pronunciations, that I doubt many spanish people care which is 'correct', (or possibly even know).....especially if it is a foreigner speaking - those I know are just happy that we are trying!

& let's face it..........as adults learning a foreign language are we ever likely to speak with a 'spanish' accent.......whatever that is:confused:

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Hmmm. Another tricky one to pronounce correctly. If you want a Spaniards mouth when they talk it definitely seems more like the "th". You see their tongue sticking out through their teeth.

Eg,: Madrith (instead of Madrid), or ciudath (instead of ciudad).

I wouldn´t omit it altogether though...Madri, ciuda. Sounds a bit village idiot to me!!!

And if you go for the hard "d" sound, well then you just sound English!

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hhmmm...how about the letter "z"? When it's at the beginning or the end of a word: for example, Zaragosa or capaz.
Thanks,
Carol

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Well the Z is definitely pronounced like a TH. Unless you pronounce it like an S of course.

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[QUOTE=lynnxa;4960549]why is everyone getting their knickers in such a twist:blink:

No knicker twisting for me, lynnxa.:ohmy: It's a game. Win some, lose some!:D
Carol

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:blink: the rules of this game are hard to follow!

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Sit on the floor lean slightly back, then to the left, then forward, then to the right, do this routine 10 times. :thumbup:

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definitely maybe.

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Oh boy! :rolleyes:

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Wasn´t that a bjork song? Or was that possibly maybe?

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Oasis Album

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Ah yes! I think I´ve got that somewhere. Should dig out my old stuff a bit more often.

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This is something than even Spanish people don't pronounce correctly. Most of us, pronounce the "ll" as a "y". But this is not the appropiate pronuntiation. In Spain, people from Valladolid are, I think, the only ones, that pronounce it in a correct way, and it is impossible to transcribe it, you would have to hear me.
But don't worry, as I said, most of Spanish people, pronounce it as a "Y", the phonetical transcription in spanish would be "ia".
Sorry, it is very difficult to explain to it by writing instead of hearing.