Plants to prevent Erosion?
Oct 15th 2010, 10:50 pm
#16
Banned
Joined: Feb 2008
Location: Vejer de la Fra., Cadiz
Posts: 7,653
Re: Plants to prevent Erosion?
These are guys I was talking about, its amazing stuff!
http://www.platipus-anchors.com/eart...8_wadworth.pdf
I have always tried to look at things differently Bil, if you look at a problem in a lateral way a logical solution can always be found.
http://www.platipus-anchors.com/eart...8_wadworth.pdf
I have always tried to look at things differently Bil, if you look at a problem in a lateral way a logical solution can always be found.
I do loathe it when people have a problem and fail to try and get round it but just sit there whining. I accept that not all solutions are desireable or realistically achieveable, but not trying is a crime.
As for here, the solution seems pretty simple to me. There has to be an angle below which slips are effectively impossible. So, you make the cuts to that angle or below, and where you can't, us a mix of hard and soft. ie rock face it and plant it as well.
Oct 15th 2010, 11:00 pm
#17
Straw Man.
Joined: Aug 2006
Location: That, there, that's not my post count... nothing to see here, move along.
Posts: 46,302
Re: Plants to prevent Erosion?
Yeah, serious stuff. Those rock filled cages are pretty damn good too.
I do loathe it when people have a problem and fail to try and get round it but just sit there whining. I accept that not all solutions are desireable or realistically achieveable, but not trying is a crime.
As for here, the solution seems pretty simple to me. There has to be an angle below which slips are effectively impossible. So, you make the cuts to that angle or below, and where you can't, us a mix of hard and soft. ie rock face it and plant it as well.
I do loathe it when people have a problem and fail to try and get round it but just sit there whining. I accept that not all solutions are desireable or realistically achieveable, but not trying is a crime.
As for here, the solution seems pretty simple to me. There has to be an angle below which slips are effectively impossible. So, you make the cuts to that angle or below, and where you can't, us a mix of hard and soft. ie rock face it and plant it as well.
Platypus make the best tree systems I have used, I had a job planting 60 mature trees on a large country estate in Cranleigh and the client, a rich Russian type, wanted an avenue of Tilia Cordata and they were already 12 mtr trees and the client didn't want to see any posts or ties at all and these guys came out to show us their net system... brilliant and so easy to use compared to the old version.
Oct 16th 2010, 5:46 am
#18
Banned
Joined: Feb 2008
Location: Vejer de la Fra., Cadiz
Posts: 7,653
Re: Plants to prevent Erosion?
Yeah I mentioned terracing earlier, its a brilliant option and if you are clever you can make them look like mini olive terraces. I know some like to use lavender as a feature on banks and they are a good idea but to stop it going too woody they need to be heavily pruned and I just don't know what sort of bank we are talking about.
Platypus make the best tree systems I have used, I had a job planting 60 mature trees on a large country estate in Cranleigh and the client, a rich Russian type, wanted an avenue of Tilia Cordata and they were already 12 mtr trees and the client didn't want to see any posts or ties at all and these guys came out to show us their net system... brilliant and so easy to use compared to the old version.
Platypus make the best tree systems I have used, I had a job planting 60 mature trees on a large country estate in Cranleigh and the client, a rich Russian type, wanted an avenue of Tilia Cordata and they were already 12 mtr trees and the client didn't want to see any posts or ties at all and these guys came out to show us their net system... brilliant and so easy to use compared to the old version.
You should see the roadworks here. The road up to vejer is splitting open and has had to have serious repairs, and where we live, the cracks up the middle of the road are getting bigger and bigger.
The term they used for the road widening was ensanchamientar. So I thought I'd look it up, as it sounded like Sancho panza, Don Q's assistant. Panza is fat, ensanchar is to widen, so his assistant was effectively called Fat belly fat.
Oct 17th 2010, 7:09 am
#19
RETIRED ;-))
Joined: Jul 2003
Location: Benalmadena Pueblo,Spain
Posts: 20,156
Re: Plants to prevent Erosion?
These are guys I was talking about, its amazing stuff!
http://www.platipus-anchors.com/eart...8_wadworth.pdf
I have always tried to look at things differently Bil, if you look at a problem in a lateral way a logical solution can always be found.
http://www.platipus-anchors.com/eart...8_wadworth.pdf
I have always tried to look at things differently Bil, if you look at a problem in a lateral way a logical solution can always be found.
They had a big drilling machine on a crane going along the rockwalls then netted it all then sprayed with fine mix concrete.
Oct 18th 2010, 12:09 am
#20
BE Forum Addict
Thread Starter
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,171
Re: Plants to prevent Erosion?
Right... There are a few ways to stabilise a bank. Plants are always given as a viable option but the problem with plants is that just using them is not that effective, you can't guarantee that all the plants will take for one, which means you will have gaps, gaps won't give you stability. Secondly if it rains while you are waiting for the plants to establish then you will lose some of them to the runoff, which will then cause gaps.. and that won't help. Plants will help with bank stabilisation but they help in an unusual way, what they actually do is absorb much of the moisture and draw it down to their roots, this means that less water is threatening your bank, the roots themselves won't stop the runoff, its the action of absorption that does that, but even the plants are at risk if you get a proper downfall, this is because they can't absorb all that is being thrown at them, they can't cope with the quantity and as a result you will end up with the soil eroding from underneath and that will mean much of your soil will be lost and then your plants will start to be knocked back and may well die.
The other option is to net or mesh the whole bank. Now this can be done with a specialist matting, maybe even some landscaping terram, its the black stuff you see sometimes in commercial beds. This will cover the whole area and you can then cut slots into the fabric to allow planting. This will mean your plants will be protected underneath the terram, the bulk of the water will simply run off and your bank will be semi protected. The obvious problems with this system is it doesn't look good for a while and you will need some tough plants to deal with the increased heat, reduced water and generally quite a hostile environment. There are some very expensive bank systems, they can range from the system I have used before which is the Platypus system. Its quite complicated to explain but its sort of a spiders web system that attaches to pins that are driven into the bank. Its an incredible system and is extensively used on motorways to hold back whole cliffs. It really is an amazing system but at around £45 a square meter its not cheap!
If you want a nice simple option I would go for chicken wire. Yeah I know, I could well have just said that at the start but I wanted to show what could be done. Lay the chicken wire out flat across the whole bank in strips. They can be horizontal or vertical its up to you, but if you go horizontal make sure your strips overlap at least a couple of feet and lay it like you would felt, with the top run overlapping the lower run... I hope that makes sense. This while thing needs to be pinned down. The cheapest and best option is to use tent pegs. Drive them in every few feet, make sure the laps are well pegged down then put soil or rocks over the edges of the netting, or maybe, if you want to get fancy, run strips of netting on the sides to finish it off. Once this is down, and it needs to be DOWN VERY TIGHT, you can then start either pushing plants into the gaps in the netting every foot or so or you can cut slots in it and do the same.
For plants I know there have already been some suggestions but why not try something different? The very best plant I can suggest to stabalise anything is Ivy. Yeah I know, its a climber, but there is no hard written law to say it has to climb anything, and anyone who has ever tried to remove ivy will contest to the fact that they are very well rooted! You could even try some of the other climbers to make it pretty, maybe a bougainvillia, or even the star jasmine.
The other option is to net or mesh the whole bank. Now this can be done with a specialist matting, maybe even some landscaping terram, its the black stuff you see sometimes in commercial beds. This will cover the whole area and you can then cut slots into the fabric to allow planting. This will mean your plants will be protected underneath the terram, the bulk of the water will simply run off and your bank will be semi protected. The obvious problems with this system is it doesn't look good for a while and you will need some tough plants to deal with the increased heat, reduced water and generally quite a hostile environment. There are some very expensive bank systems, they can range from the system I have used before which is the Platypus system. Its quite complicated to explain but its sort of a spiders web system that attaches to pins that are driven into the bank. Its an incredible system and is extensively used on motorways to hold back whole cliffs. It really is an amazing system but at around £45 a square meter its not cheap!
If you want a nice simple option I would go for chicken wire. Yeah I know, I could well have just said that at the start but I wanted to show what could be done. Lay the chicken wire out flat across the whole bank in strips. They can be horizontal or vertical its up to you, but if you go horizontal make sure your strips overlap at least a couple of feet and lay it like you would felt, with the top run overlapping the lower run... I hope that makes sense. This while thing needs to be pinned down. The cheapest and best option is to use tent pegs. Drive them in every few feet, make sure the laps are well pegged down then put soil or rocks over the edges of the netting, or maybe, if you want to get fancy, run strips of netting on the sides to finish it off. Once this is down, and it needs to be DOWN VERY TIGHT, you can then start either pushing plants into the gaps in the netting every foot or so or you can cut slots in it and do the same.
For plants I know there have already been some suggestions but why not try something different? The very best plant I can suggest to stabalise anything is Ivy. Yeah I know, its a climber, but there is no hard written law to say it has to climb anything, and anyone who has ever tried to remove ivy will contest to the fact that they are very well rooted! You could even try some of the other climbers to make it pretty, maybe a bougainvillia, or even the star jasmine.
) and money but I hope it will establish itself enough over the next two to three years to outlast me .I guess youve seen the gabion system? www.gabions.net ,it looks very good but I think it would be to expensive for the large area I have to do.
Many Thanks
Rotor
Last edited by Rotor; Oct 18th 2010 at 12:14 am.
Oct 18th 2010, 12:19 am
#21
Straw Man.
Joined: Aug 2006
Location: That, there, that's not my post count... nothing to see here, move along.
Posts: 46,302
Re: Plants to prevent Erosion?
Cheers for that, after some thought I think I will go go a mixture of mesh (what size do you reccomend?) and terracing , its going to be a lot of hard graft (enter Romainian laboures) and money but I hope it will establish itself enough over the next two to three years to outlast me .
Many Thanks
Rotor
) and money but I hope it will establish itself enough over the next two to three years to outlast me .Many Thanks
Rotor
As for the chicken wire its not that important as to size, the bigger the gauge of mesh the less likely you have to cut it but obviously the smaller the gauge the better the hold on some of the lose stuff. Try and hire a digger and have a go yourself.... so long as you are careful and take your time its serious fun and you will be surprised how quickly you get the hang of it.
One last word of advice... don't do it when there is any threat of rain, you need the bank nice and stable before you start pulling it about and doing it dry is a good place to start.
