Lou71

I've been in touch with my contact at the Commission to alert them to that very issue and used UK/Australia passports as an example. The EU are fully aware of this potential loophole re dual passport holders and EES (people cheating the system by using two passports and trying to circumvent the 90/180 day travel rule) and they are on to it.

​​​​​​So you don't need to worry about that!

rbs_gb

Wouldn't the biometric data pick that up? False passports are not exactly new?

Lou71

This is not really about false passports, it's about someone with legitimate dual UK/Australian passports pretending to be two different people in order to circumvent the 90/180 day travel rules.

They should get picked up on the fingerprints via EES but nonetheless, it is potentially a serious security breach and the EU must be made aware of it and ensure safeguards are in place.

rbs_gb

The comment on false passports was obviously tongue in cheek, but if the ETIAS pre-publicity is to be believed, this goes way way way beyond any concerns about whether someone has dual passports:
https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/etias/

Lou71

Yes, that more or less confirms that people will be picked up via finger prints so the system will register that they entered Schengen recently with a different passport.

It's important that the EU are aware of it.

rbs_gb

As I understand it, even if someone holds two passports, getting two ETIAS should not be possible. Have to wait and see whether it all happens in 2024 of course, been delayed so many times so far!

tdrinker

What would be better is the EU reciprocating the more generous UK system as it applies to EU nationals. I understand some EU countries would prefer this as it would benefit their economies.

DLC

The home office get the data from the airlines, but it's not foolproof (ferries and the CTA).

DLC

You can already apply for a NLV (Spain) or VLS-TS (France), once you get one it's valid for other Schengen countries. Although more than 182 days is complicated tax-wise.

astera

I'm sure they are aware of this but until ETIAS goes live it looks to be a loophole that's hard to plug (no fingerprinting yet, only passport stamps to rely on, no travel history database, etc.).

It is what it is. The UK treats EU nationals like it does everyone else and the EU treats UK nationals likewise.

What the UK needs to do is join the EEA but for that to happen people need to use their vote for political change.

I'm sure they have access to the system and can pull any data available there, but is there an actual database that monitors and saves all the in/out information? Or are UK overstayers simply allowed to depart whenever they please?

rbs_gb

Just on that last part, why would the UK be concerned? The rules are the Schengen Zone rules, and not a concern (in this sense) of the UK. What could cause them to impede anyone leaving the UK?

rbs_gb

It's pretty clear that the forum members have a sound understanding of the 90/180 days rules in the Schengen Zone but how many cases do we know of first hand and not anecdotes of someone being fined and or banned for overstaying? I've heard loads of anecdotal evidence, but the fact is, I can't find any evidence that Spain is enforcing this. You would have thought that this topic would be newsworthy and somewhere it would appear in the press, but I can't find anything. Every search I've put into search engines, both in English and Spanish such as "cuantos britanicos han recibido multas por permanecer mas de 90 dias en la zona schengen" only turns up loads of lawyers telling me what the rules are, but nothing about actual cases of fines or bans.

I understand the rules came into place right in the middle of COVID, and the Spanish Ministry of Inclusion together with the Foreign Office made public statements "that Spain would be lenient towards overstayers". To be honest, the more I read, the less convinced I am that the rules are enforced. I'm sure that some cases would have gone to appeal if fines or bans had been applied, but can anyone find evidence?

Is anyone able to give a link showing case evidence?

astera

Schengen? I was writing solely about the UK system and how tourists are monitored in terms of arriving in/departing from the UK. How do they catch out overstayers who have been in the country beyond the 6 month period?

rbs_gb

Oops! Wrong end of the stick! The UK Border Control does constant reports on detainees and deportation of illegal immigrants. https://www.gov.uk/entering-staying-...and_statistics and the Advanced Pasenger Information system should detect overstayers. What happens to them, I've no idea.

DLC

There's some info here but it's all a bit ambiguous because there's more "guidance" than law.