BandauSpallet

Hi all. First post...please be gentle!!!

Considering my options at the moment.

I'm 53, and my wife is 45. Both of us are retired, UK-resident, and we own a property in the Alicante area.

In a couple of years, I can access my personal pension, and as ut stands, I can access 25% of it tax-free. We spoke to a tax adviser in Spain, who explained to us that IF we became Spanish-resident, then that 25% would be taxable in Spain.
Not wishing to risk a (significant) hit, we decided that we'd remain UK-resident until my wife's personal pension can be accessed, in around 12 years time, and then look to become Spanish-resident at that point. In the meantime, we'd just continue the 90-in-rolling-180 day visits.

This morning, though, my wife asked me why we hadn't considered applying for the NLV, renewing after the first year, and then effectively giving up the NLV, going back to the UK, drawing down from my pension, and then reapplying for a NLV again.

Sounds tricky, and probably off-puttingly time consuming, but I just wondered whether that's even possible...to "reapply" for a NLV after giving it up (and eventually to apply for full Spanish residency at a later date)?

There's lots out there about renewing after a year...but there doesn't seem to be anything about giving up the Visa.

Anyone out there with any info?

Joppa

NLV is a year's visa, and it's entirely up to you whether to renew it or not at the end. So you aren't doing anything improper or underhand just to live in Spain for a year or two years. You don't have to live for 5 consecutive years (though this gives you permanent residence). As for your tax position, what you should do is to make sure you claim your 25% in the year while still a UK resident, and only move to Spain in the year after. Spanish tax year is calendar year, so just make sure you stay in UK until 31st December in the year you withdraw the lump sum. NLV has a passive income requirement of around 34,000 euro per year for a couple.

Moses2013

Looking at it there is no rule and you would just have to apply from the beginning again, of course any application can be refused. If you just go over to avoid tax maybe they could refuse if it's too obvious, but I'm not a lawyer.

rbs_gb

I claim no expertise but offer the following as personal observations after very limited experience with the NLV! The NLV means you are both financially totally independent, so probably in the first application I would think the consulate will want to understand very carefully how, at your ages, you are both retired and doing no meaningful work. i.e convince them that you are not trying the NLV route only to do some kind of work (even if internet based) while you are in Spain. As Joppa says, they would require convincing about your income.

Second comment I would offer is to make sure you are both clear about the difference between resident and being tax resident. The residency covered by the NLV gets you round the schengen rules, but the timing of your arrival and departure from Spain would determine the tax years that you would be tax resident. Playing a "now you see me, now you don't" game I don't think would go down well especially if you were to reapply without any reason other than tax avoidance. Having the NLV is not the same as being tax resident, and it naturally expires if you don't renew it. Tax years are the natural calendar years in Spain, so keep that in mind too. Correct timing will be very important for your plan to work.

To get the NLVs you are going to be interviewed at the consulate, and that second interview to reapply for a second pair of NLVs could be made more difficult in your plan. As you are so close to being able to drawdown tax free in a couple of years, stickiing to the schengen rules in the meantime doesn't seem like such a bad idea.

Ronnyone

I think you are exaggerating a bit. No?

BandauSpallet

Thank you all for your thoughts.

Considering these, I think it may be prudent for us to wait at least until 2025...draw down my 25% tax-free, then start an NLV application later in that year OR very early 2026, in order to ensure that in the calendar year 2025, we are fully UK-resident.

We would then have 8+ years until my wife would be able to draw on her personal pension at 57 years old, in 2034.

Income/amount-wise - we have considerable savings and no mortgage in the UK, and in 2025, I could start drawing £1000 a month or so from my personal pension to prove I have a regular income. Proof of savings/income could presumably be from UK savings account statements, and from proof of the €34000+ being in my Spanish bank account.

On that - I've seen differing opinions on whether it's €34000 physically "in your account" in year 1, and then €68000 physically "in your account" in year 2.......OR whether it's €34000 "in your account" in year 1, and then "prove you have €34000 again" in year 2...ie. the €34000 you have in the first year could be "recycled" in the second year.

I wondered whether there's anyone who's actually gone through this who can say one way or the other.

Ronnyone

If you have actual bank savings in excess of £ 60,000 at time of application and a income from a pension you will be fine. I wouldn't worry too much. The one thing I should say that retiring so early ( wife 45) to a foreign country will become quite boring after a couple of years. You won't have many friends and the days can be long with nothing much to do. In UK many people choose to work part time or do voluntary work both which will be limited to you if on a NLV.

tebo53

Ronnyone......

Why would you assume that the OP wouldn't have many friends and get bored easily?

Spain is a big country to explore especially as the OP has plenty of funding.

Steve

Moses2013

That is true and there are plenty of people who have never worked a day in their life . Some also prefer their pets to people which I totally understand.

Ronnyone

I mean in the beginning you won't have many friends as its a new place, you don't speak the language and work is an important part of socialising without having to be drinking or eating. Everyone is different admittedly but I would think most people would feel a bit bored and lonely only being 45.

BandauSpallet

No problem there...we have WAY more friends in Spain than we do in the UK!!!

Moses2013

I know what you mean, but of course all people are different. I even see it here and don't know how some people in towns/cities manage without a car. Hanging around the same place would be too boring for me and we often just drive 2 hours to a different beach or go hiking etc.. It's the same when we drive to Spain and I don't know how people manage to sit in the sun all day and maybe just walk 500 metres.

Ronnyone

I only mention it because I think folk often don't think about what every day life will be like in spain and especially when it comes to living here for decades. For me 45- 50 is way too young to stop your working life. And if you come to a foreign country like Spain you are limited to expat ghettos for social company ( unless you speak Spanish). And those places are basically just holiday zones so life revolves around beach, pool and bars. When you work you integrate into the full community- you learn about the culture, the politics, language etc. Just my opinion though.

rbs_gb

I think it is safe to assume the OP and his wife have a good working knowledge of their lifestyle in Spain. I interpreted the initial post shows there are doubts being about the tax and double NLV application. I hold to what I posted earlier as it was based on my own similiar situation of avoiding Spanish tax on the 25% drawdown from the pension. I personally waited in order to do a single NLV application. I also used my personal pension fund to show my ability to satisfy the income requirements.

EDIT: The only advantage of doing the double NLV application is to gain 6 extra months in Spain, at the risk of making the second NLV application open to more questions. I'm not suggesting it is against the rules, quite the contrary, but could lead to more questions at the second interview.

Listen Very Carefully

I do have some sympathy for the argument that Ronnyone makes.I would say that anyone retiring to a "foreign" country needs to have a plan and need to ask themselves "Exactly what do I want from my retirement?" and importantly" How will I achieve it?" I was fortunate in being able to "retire" at the age of 51 and moved to France but I did keep some work going in the UK which also enabled to keep an eye on parents etc.I chose Brittany because we wanted to have a go at self sufficiency and that area had smallholdings and houses at reasonable prices plus had the sort of leisure that we liked.
Just as importantly you need an "escape plan" it case it goes wrong and thinking long term what about your own old age?
And of course you really need a good working knowledge of the language to really get the best out of your life.