Dick Dasterdly

Exactly Elle,

Pleased you mentioned that point.

Now if you take a moment to think about it, you may just begin to understand why ppl who cannot stand ciggy smoke or happen to be allergic to it, have felt extremely Discriminated against for all these years, especially when living in towns and villages where they could never find a single non smoking pub to go in and enjoy a drink,a snack and a bit crack.

No one is stopping you entering any bar or cafe you wish, or sitting outside of them with a drink and a snack.

The law is simply designed so that non smokers and those concerned about their health, are Not Discriminated Against, and able to go about their daily routines without being bothered or badly affected by the effects of smoke.

Not too much to ask surely ?

Elle1971

Hello again. Since public awareness was raised as to the dangers of smoking, and latterly passive smoking, systems were put into place to ensure that non-smokers were indeed cared for - as of course is right. I have not disputed that at any point. It started very slowly I know, but has ramped up in recent years.

I used to run a pub (in the UK) that was one of the first to have a completely separate non-smoking area. This was back in the mid 90s... yes, almost 20 years ago. I put a member of staff through a disciplinary process (and then she walked out before her final written warning was actually given) because she insisted on walking through with a cigarette to get to other areas. My brewery backed me 100%.

Not at any point have I ever said that the law is wrong... or that smoking areas should not have tight guidelines. My concern and beef is that some people would love to go beyond the law and remove all areas instead. That is what I deem as discriminatory.

Absolutely not too much to ask, Dick, no - I think it's about time it was taken seriously! I am mildly asthmatic (although the climate in the Canaries has all but obliterated that for me... and yes I know that smoking doesn't help), and my brother seriously asthmatic - so fully appreciate the dangers smoking can pose to others' health.

Before the restrictions, I would never stay very long in a smoky pub. I left before the ban came into place in the UK... and only returned in January & September last year for the first time in almost 4 years. I could see the positive difference it made - and it seemed to have had less of a negative impact as it originally did in Ireland - but that's probably because so many pubs had already closed anyway for other reasons. I am a hard and fast fan of banning it from enclosed spaces.

I am also very aware of how ignorant or unaware many smokers can be (my husband included - and yes I do berate him for it) and that drives me nuts. But not all smokers are like that, and some of us actually DO care - but we still have a right by law for now, to smoke outside.

There is plenty of space for everyone... but it would seem that a few disagree.

Elle xx

licinius

Again you miss the point Elle, no one is saying you should go without a drink in a bar. I believe strongly in live & let live, if you found a way of controlling your smoke so that I didn't have to inhale it or stink rotten then I wouldn't care. The fact is you do not have to smoke in a bar/restaurant or even walking down the street (which incidentally is just as horrible when you get a faceful). Your actions are no less considerate than somebody repeatedly farting in your vicinity.

Have you ever actually smelled your clothes the next morning? It's bad enough for passive smokers, I dread to think how bad smokers themselves must smell!

Casa Santo Estevo

It seems that harmful secondary smoking is totally unproven.
Article one
More false statements
Even more scientific misrepresentation.
The thirdhand smoke scam
600,000 People Die Worldwide From Secondhand Smoke Every Year
Flawed Assumptions
So maybe in the end these studies will be thought about in the same way as the Global Warming studies.

licinius

Harmful or not, it stinks, makes me choke & makes my hair and clothes smell so I'd appreciate it if you only did it in private please, thankyou

scampicat

I was not using him as an example of what one's attitude to smoking SHOULD be like, and in fact have stated earlier in this thread that I believe there should be places where people CAN smoke. As you say it is not illegal. I was just saying how he felt about it. But his reaction, I admit, is rather extreme.

A relative asked him to bring a couple of packs of cigarettes back when he was visiting us once, he flatly refused. The relative assumed he was joking. I had to assure them he most certainly was not, and it was nothing to do with smuggling! Then my son said to the relative 'I like you, G*****. I don't want to help you to kill yourself. Therefore I am not bringing you any cigarettes. Not ever'. The relative has never asked again!

He does have a good quality of life, albeit having underachieved as he is very intelligent. But more importantly, he now has a good social life (he didn't have much of one when he was younger, due to his condition and not being able to make friends), a lovely long-term girlfriend who is also Aspie, so they understand each other's obsessions and quirky ways, and a decent job at Morrisons.

Thanks for your good wishes.

cricketman

What, you mean correct?

You can find links on the internet to disprove anything. Especially when large tobaco and oil companies are involved.

As someone who has a Masters in Chemistry I can say with a degree of certainty that both passive smoking and global warming are indeed facts.

The problem in proving anything like this (as a scientist will know) is that it is almost impossible to isolate variables in an experimental setting. So the only way to analyse the situation is to take the weight of evidence pointing towards something being true or not.

Btw, global climate change (and warming in this instance) is happening, that is a fact. What is so difficult is knowing by how much this change is down to human actions and what effect that changing these human actions will have (if any). These things are almost improvable, and if we wait for them to become proven then it will almost certainly be too late (if it isnt already).

Chiclanagir

Tell that to Roy Castle.

Bigger Jim

So what exactly was wrong with the smoking rooms that many bars had?

Surely allowing discrimination against smokers is just as bad?

I noticed that there appears to be no problem with Dioxin in eggs. To which all I can say is Bhopal.

Should not politicians be held to account for permitting smoking rather than the victim i.e. the smoker. Are not both the smoker and the non-smoker victims of these zealots.

Jim

bil

Oh puh-leeze. That's a very dishonest reply. My response was not aimed at you, because I did not attach a quote, and it was a generalised response to all the smokers on here. At no point did I refer to you personally having a reduced IQ, or will power.

However, look at it like this. If someone engages in an activity that is known to be harmful, especially when such activity gives no visible benefit, I think we are entitled to question their motivation, especially when the subject is being publically discussed.

Also, my language was hardly puerile.

OK, let's put it like this. You know smoking is harmful, you know that because of your addiction chances are that your family will have to watch you suffer the effects of smoking as your health deteriorates. Some might even call you selfish because of the suffering that will cause them.

So this question IS aimed at you.

Knowing all this, why do you continue to smoke? Is it because you aren't bright enough to weigh the evidence, is it because you lack the will power, or is it because you willfully refuse to even look at the negative side of smoking.

Oh yes. wrto your argument re discrimination. Now that is puerile.

frigilianafreddy

All very interesting. But if we could just stray back on topic...

...are the bars and rerstaurants now ciggy free?

bil

Please don't think that I'm attacking you personally, just the ideas you are putting forward.

As a smoker, you don't have rights to smoke where you please. You are one of an antisocial minority, as as such you are permitted to 'exist' on the edges of society. If nonsmokers are sitting outside, what right do you have to pollute their space?

bil

The waiters that serve have to then be exposed.

So far we have seen no problems in our area, people seem happy not to smoke where they used to, and numbers don't seem to be down.

bil

1. Saying that passive smoking does no harm is like saying you can't be hurt
by a riochetting bullet.

2. Peoples' activities have warmed the planet, but the planet hasn't yet got
much hotter. The sun is now cooler, and if our greenhouse gasses hadn't
warmed the planet, it would be a lot colder now.

scampicat

I tried many times to give up smoking before finally kicking the addiction twenty years ago, and the reason I could not was because the withdrawal symptoms were overwhelming. I knew it was bad for me (I had a smoker's cough) and also I hated the hold it had upon me. Please don't think it is merely a matter of making a decision... you may desperately wish to give up, but be unable to at that point.

I was finally able to kick it because the last time I tried I had no withdrawal symptoms and therefore it WAS then merely a matter of willpower.