Ronnyone

Which category do NS &I products go into for the modelo 720?

bobd22

I'm sure I put them in the bonds category as although a savings product they are not a bank account. They have an account number but not a sort code. I did same with ISAs for same reason. They are surely an investment rather than bank account?

Ronnyone

Interesting. My accountant says that investments mean stocks and shares or instruments connected with those things and that NSI is a government savings bank so it is cash. .My ISA which is with stock went into investment and Premium bonds and my son's NSI children bonds went in savings. Thank god those huge fines have gone as I would get 150% fine!!!. How do we know who is right another poster says its cash?

Barriej

Our accountant said cash and savings thats what he usually does (he is Spanish).
My FIL has enough to go on the 720 and his accountant (not the same as ours) has always put them in the cash and savings box.
He redoes 720 his each year as he trades shares and what not (dont ask me Ive never done this)....
Premium Bonds have no equivalent here and there is usually head scratching about them.

What are they???
Well for me its a lottery, you pay the Uk gov who use the money, but will give it all back to you whenever you want and OH yep every month you could 'win' prizes....

They are basically cash in a savings account that pays no interest... Just like sticking it a box under the bed....
Bonds to me are something different as they are not as liquid..
Premium bonds cannot be traded as such, just buy and sell.

some info.
​​​​​​https://blog.moneyfarm.com/en/invest...EaAvaNEALw_wcB

Ronnyone

Its definitely confusing. They seem to belong to both categories but Premium Bonds are not the same as "bonds" when you mean government bonds because those are completely different ( as the Silicon Valley Bank found out!!) My accountant was saying that bonds for the hacienda means effectively you sell them just like shares hence the category they are much more complex and serious than a Child's Bond with NS&I. However as the other poster says they have no IBAN or sort code like a bank.

bobd22

They definitely don't have an Iban or sort code. As for Spain not having an equivalent to Premium Bonds neither do they have ISAs either Cash or Stocks and shares . I'm sure it's one of those weird anomalies as the 720 wasn't designed for us. They are declared which must be the main thing?

Ronnyone

Yes I think as long as they are declared it's no longer a big issue. Not declaring winnings or interest or valuations are surely more serious.

bobd22

That's the view I take . The information is there if it's a mistake it's genuine and surely can be explained and changed. Problem is options open to us for saving/investing don't match Spain's system. I work on the theory of honesty and doing my best to comply.

Barriej

Yep.. The only issue would be if Premium bonds are considered 'cash' and you £10,000 and you have a savings account with £44,000 that puts you over the 'reporting figure'
But if they were put in different buckets you wouldn't report them at all.

Maybe it should be changed to report anything over €50,000 in total by adding up everything you have.
Seems fairer than having €49,999 and not telling yet having €50,001 you do....

But thats the fun of Spain..

bobd22

True but one can only do their best to comply. As it could go other way and if classed as an investment you could end up not declaring correctly that way. I don't know definitive answer I'm not sure anyone does other than whoever dreamt up the form lol. It would certainly be clearer the way you describe .

Ronnyone

yes it quite ridiculous. You could have assets of nearly 150,000 € spread equally over the 3 categories but not have to declare any of them! And as I said before- it was the King of spain who was one of the worst offenders with millions of undeclared foreign assets and he hasn't even been charged!!!

rbs_gb

In the Modelo 720 instructions the two categories are "cuentas bancarias" and "valores". The difference between the two is the first covers everything that has a direct/fixed monetary value in a normal currency, while "valores" refers to everything that has a token value until you actually come to sell it. A stocks and shares ISA would go in valores, while a cash ISA would go into bank accounts. Anything that is in valores would only have a notional value until you come to sell it. I'd agree with those that say put all NSI products in as bank accounts.