lynnxa

there are great similarities with Valenciano & Catalan - so much so that my older dd, who studies entirely in Valenciano, had a set reading book last year which was written in Catalan

there were differences, which at the time she said threw her - but in the end didn't really cause problems


sometimes if I'm struggling with something in Valenciano I'll use a Catalan online translator - with a bit of imagination you can work things out

HBG

Catalan and Valenciano are very similar and will serve you well in Catalunia and northern Valencia, but you will not be understood in the rest of Spain, whereas Castellano is spoken throughout the country.

For historical reasons, I think, using Catalan or Valenciano in some parts of Spain can cause annoyance, even in the southern part of Valencia.

The Guardia Civil, in particular, resent the use of Valenciano (or Catalan) in most areas, but I don't really know why. Something to do with the Monarchy? Or Franco?

raddickle

[QUOTE=HBG;8804640]Catalan and Valenciano are very similar and will serve you well in Catalunia and northern Valencia, but you will not be understood in the rest of Spain, whereas Castellano is spoken throughout the country.

I get the impression that in Javea, in southern Valencia, Valenciano is the first language amoungst the locals.

raddickle

[QUOTE=lynnxa;8804510]there are great similarities with Valenciano & Catalan - so much so that my older dd, who studies entirely in Valenciano, had a set reading book last year which was written in Catalan

there were differences, which at the time she said threw her - but in the end didn't really cause problems

Does that mean that the only way to learn Valenciano is with local tuition rather than a teach yourself Catalan?

lynnxa

[QUOTE=raddickle;8804659] I don't think it's a good idea to try to teach yourself any language!!!



if you mean are there any courses online - I don't think so - & I have yet to find a comprehensive online translator for Valenciano

raddickle

[QUOTE=lynnxa;8804665][QUOTE=raddickle;8804659]

I don't think it's a good idea to try to teach yourself any language!!!


I totally agree but until I can commit the time to learning with a tutor I think it's a good idea to have a background knowledge, particularly when it comes to grammar. It's the main problem I have with Castellano. I can speak a lot more than I can understand which would not be the case if I had been taught by a tutor.

cricketman

[QUOTE=lynnxa;8804665] I taught myself!

Well, I've done 6 weeks in total of Spanish lessons, but apart from that have taught myself.

Depends if you are used to learning things. If you can learn maths or physics from a book, then you can learn a language too, especially if you live in the country. If you are not used to learning then yes, get a good teacher.

HBG

[QUOTE=raddickle;8804653] Sorry, I consider Denia and Javea as the northern part, but should have said of the Alicante province of Valencia.

When I lived there, I usually found that the locals only lapse into Valenciano when they want to exclude expats from the conversation.

They came unstuck with us because my interpreter wife learned her Spanish (Castellano) in Barcelona, and has a fair knowledge of Catalan too.

But she has come unstuck several times when translating at the Guardia Civil (farther south) and inadvertently lapsing into Catalan. They get very annoyed.

lynnxa

you're doing OK then

most people understand more than they can speak when they start - it will all come together in the end!




why do you think Valenciano would be easier ?

lynnxa

[QUOTE=cricketman;8804690] yes, but there's a big difference in learning a language solely from books & a mixture of self-study & daily exposure

with a language you need to be able to hear it & have someone else hear you - you might think you're saying right, but be totally getting it wrong!!

I've learned - am still learning - & always will be I reckon - from a mixture of lessons, self-study & daily exposure

whitelinen

I agree, I cannot see any point in learning Valenciano unless you are already fluent in Castellano and have time on your hands. Ive lived just outside Valencia city for 10 years and know nobody who uses it in business and in commerce or for instance in announcements at the airport etc. Here pupils are taught in castellano with a one hour per week lesson in Valenciano Newspapers are in Castellano. Instructions are Castellano. There are little enclaves where it is spoken but Castellon is the universal language of Spain.

Nobody would advise an immigrant to the UK to learn only Welsh as is completely useless for everyday living and working in the UK.

lynnxa

yep, definitely northern CB


my daughters love butting in when people are speaking Valenciano, too

jimenato

Lots of people say that and for some it is true - I know people who can do this - I just don't understand how!

When people speak to me in Spanish they use words I don't know, tenses I'm not familiar with and grammar that confuses me.

When I speak Spanish I do none of those things. I can easily get round vocab I don't know and tenses and grammar constructs aren't so important, you can get by quite well using compound tenses for instance.

How on earth can it be easier to understand than to speak?

I wish I knew because the people who can do this have a definite advantage - they tend to pick it all up a lot quicker. I've known people who can get by in conversation after only a few weeks. The disadvantage is that they speak a lot of dreadful Spanish and don't seem inclined to do anything about it.

I converse every day in Spanish, I just wish I could understand better.

raddickle

I don't. I think it would useful if wanting to integrate with the locals. However didn't you say that a lot of Brits find it easier than Castellano?
Fronm the little that I've seen of Catalan/Valenciano there seems to be a French influence which a lot of Brits have a passing knowledge of.

lynnxa

yes, I think that's why - the French influence


as far as integrating I don't think you need to worry about yet another language


yes, it helps to be able to read Valenciano - I can - especially if you have kids in the state schools, but as far as speaking it I really don't think it would make that much difference in Javea - it's such a mix of people from all over Spain

Castellano is definitely the way to go - not everyone in Javea speaks Valenciano - even locals - some of the pijos actually look down on those that do

now if you were in Gata........................